[KS] Brian Hwang's Discussion Question
Sheila Miyoshi Jager
sheila.jager at oberlin.edu
Mon Apr 16 08:22:09 EDT 2012
Unfortunately war is a necessary evil in the human condition. The better
you are prepared for it the better the chance of preventing it. No one
is more anti-war then the people who have to fight it if it occurs. You
can condemn war, and rightfully so, but you can't eliminate it.
Jiyul Kim.
On 4/15/2012 7:50 PM, Michael Pettid wrote:
> Mr. Kim
>
> I am happy that you were able to find a silver lining in a war that
> killed tens of thousands of combatants and many, many more
> non-combatants. The war experience that was able to "bolster the
> competence and confidence" of the SK troops was surely worth such a
> cost, right? Wars are the plague of humankind and nothing more than
> the actions of various governments to achieve their goals. War must
> be condemned in whatever fashion necessary.
>
> Michael J. Pettid
> Professor of Premodern Korean Studies
> Department of Asian and Asian American Studies
> Director, Translation, Research and Instruction Program
> Binghamton University
> 607.777.3862
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jiyul Kim <jiyulkim at gmail.com>
> *To:* koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 15, 2012 12:58 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [KS] Brian Hwang's Discussion Question
>
> This is all good and fine from a macro view and I see nothing to
> disagree with, but numbers and quantification and metrics do not make
> history. What is left out is the psychology and emotions that Vietnam
> generated in Park, the military, and the populace. No doubt there were
> tremendous materiel benefits for SK and other Asian countries from the
> war, but the war also had unmeasurable "benefits" that were recognized
> then as well for example consolidating national pride and confidence
> and providing the military with combat experience. Since 1953 the only
> Korean forces, North and South, who have experienced real combat were
> the Koreans in Vietnam including a handful of North Korean fighter
> pilots. That experience did much to bolster the competence and
> confidence of the South Korean Army. This is not to justify their
> deployment or to somehow legitimate the Vietnam War. I for one believe
> it was a tragic unjust war for the U.S. and its allies to have gotten
> involved in, but we should not always paint everything about the war
> in broad and condemning strokes.
>
> Jiyul Kim
>
>
> On 4/15/2012 10:15 AM, Katsiaficas, George wrote:
>> The larger context has bearing on your question. The government of
>> South Korea received tremendous economic benefits from the Vietnam
>> War. Park Chung-hee's grandiose scheme to build heavy industry
>> required enormous amounts of money, but he had only limited domestic
>> sources. As much as hesqueezed workers and devalued the currency to
>> stimulate exports, he still needed farmore capital.Between 1953 and
>> 1962, US aid funded 70% of Korea’s imports and 80% of its fixed
>> capital investments—about 8% of its GNP.Once the US needed its monies
>> to fight the war in Vietnam, however, it began to cut back. In order
>> to find new international sources of money, Park endorsed a key US
>> proposal: closer ROK ties with Japan. Staunch domestic opposition to
>> normalization prevented a treaty from simply being finalized. On June
>> 3, 1964, Park declared martial law in Seoul and dismissed dozens of
>> professors and students. The US Combined Forces Commander approved
>> the release of two combat divisions to suppress the protests. Despite
>> thousands of students threatening to storm the Blue House (the
>> presidentialresidence), Park rammed the treaty through the rubber
>> stamp legislature of the Third Republic. When the opposition went on
>> a hunger strike to protest the treaty, the ruling party took one
>> minute to ratify it, and at the same time, it also approved sending
>> 20,000 troops to Vietnam to fight on the side of the US. In exchange
>> for normalization of relations, Japan paid $300 million in grants
>> (for which Park indemnified Japan for all its previous actions) and
>> made available another half-a-billion dollars in loans.
>> Sensing an opportunity to channel public sentiment against the
>> communist enemy as well as a second avenue to raise capital,
>> Park immediately offered thousands more troops for deployment to
>> Vietnam. Despite scattered student protests, war with Vietnam proved
>> less controversial than his settling of accounts with Japan. Park’s
>> movement of troops was so fast, that according to figures released by
>> the US State Department, there were more South Korean soldiers
>> fighting in southern Vietnam in 1965 than North Vietnamese.[1]
>> <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#_ftn1> South Koreans soldiers were
>> widely reported to be even more brutal than their US counterparts. At
>> the end of 1969, some 48,000 ROK military personnel were stationed in
>> Vietnam, and by the time they completed their withdrawal in 1973,
>> some 300,000 veterans had fought there. ROK casualties included 4,960
>> dead and 10,962 wounded. Wars provide experiences for military
>> officers who go on to inflict future casualties. Lieutenant No
>> Ri-Bang served in Jeju in 1948 and went to Vietnam. Future dictators
>> Chun Doo Hwan and Roh Tae-woo served together in Vietnam, before
>> brutally ruling South Korea after Park’s assassination in 1979.
>> The economic benefits of military intervention in Vietnam were
>> extraordinary. From 1965-1970, the South Korean government received
>> $1.1 billion in payments—about 7% of GDP and 19% of foreign
>> earnings.[3] <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#_ftn3> More than 80
>> Korean companies did lucrative business in Vietnam—from
>> transportation to supply, construction to entertainment—from which
>> the country accrued another $1 billion for exports to and services in
>> Vietnam. Secret US bonuses paid to Park’s government for Korean
>> soldiers who fought in Vietnam totaled $185 million from 1965-1973.
>> When we add all these funds to the $1.1 billion in direct payments,
>> the total US allocations to Park’s regime amounted to about 30% of
>> the ROK’s foreign exchange earnings from 1966-1969.[4]
>> <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#_ftn4> Altogether US aid to South
>> Korea totaled $11 billion by 1973—more than to any other country
>> except South Vietnam—some 8% of worldwide US military and foreign
>> monies.[5] <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#_ftn5> Regimes friendly
>> to the US in Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, and Thailand also
>> benefited greatly from the tidal wave of dollars that flooded the
>> region during the Vietnam War.
>>
>> Excerpted from my book, Asia's Unknown Uprisings: Vol. 1 South Korean
>> Social Movements in the 20th Century
>>
>> George Katsiaficas
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> [1] <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#_ftnref1> See the discussion
>> in the volume I edited, /Vietnam Documents: American and Vietnamese
>> Views of the War/ (Armonk, NY: M.E. Sharpe, 1992) p. 63.
>> [2] <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#_ftnref2> Chae-Jin Lee, pp.
>> 55, 70.
>> [3] <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#_ftnref3> Cumings, /Korea’s
>> Place in the Sun/, p. 321.
>> [4] <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#_ftnref4> Martin
>> Hart-Landsberg 1993, 147-8.
>> [5] <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#_ftnref5> Han Sung-joo,
>> “Korean Politics in an International Context,” in Korean National
>> Commission for UNESCO (editor) /Korean Politics: Striving for
>> Democracy and Unification/ (Elizabeth, NJ: Hollym, 2002) p. 620.
>>
>> From: don kirk <kirkdon at yahoo.com <mailto:kirkdon at yahoo.com>>
>> Reply-To: Korean Studies Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws
>> <mailto:koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>>
>> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 15:04:41 -0700
>> To: Kevin Shepard <kevin_shepard at yahoo.com
>> <mailto:kevin_shepard at yahoo.com>>, Korean Studies Discussion List
>> <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws <mailto:koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>>
>> Subject: Re: [KS] Brian Hwang's Discussion Question
>>
>> The question is whether or not they got bonuses in order to
>> "volunteer" for Vietnam. If they got no bonuses, then obviously they
>> wouldn't be "mercenaries." Even if they got bonuses, it would be
>> difficult to pin the mercenary label since soldiers in any army
>> generally get combat pay when fighting overseas. Also, I'm not sure
>> ordinary draftees had any say in where they were sent.
>> All told, 300,000 Koreans served in Vietnam over nearly a ten-year
>> period. Five thousand of them were KIA, many more WIA. The White
>> Horse and Tiger divisions were the principal units. Korean special
>> forces were also in Vietnam. Those whom I have met are proud to have
>> served there. Many of them, grizzled old veterans, turn up at
>> demonstrations in Seoul protesting leftist demos, NKorean human
>> rights violations, North Korean dynastic rule etc. They love to wear
>> their old uniforms with ribbons awarded for Vietnam service,
>> including acts of individual heroism.
>> Some of them also talk quite openly about what they did in Vietnam --
>> and could provide material supporting your thesis re "the type of
>> warfare that they had to fight in Vietnam,
>> including guerrilla warfare and civilian warfare." Strongly suggest
>> you come here and interview some while they're still around. They'd
>> tell you a lot, good and bad. Sorry to say, one of them once boasted
>> to me of a personal "body count" of 300 victims -- would doubt if all
>> of them were "enemy." On the other hand, they were also known for
>> high levels of efficiency and success in their AO's.
>> Good luck on the project.
>> Don Kirk
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 4/14/12, Kevin Shepard /<kevin_shepard at yahoo.com
>> <mailto:kevin_shepard at yahoo.com>>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Kevin Shepard <kevin_shepard at yahoo.com
>> <mailto:kevin_shepard at yahoo.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [KS] Brian Hwang's Discussion Question
>> To: "koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws
>> <mailto:koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>" <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws
>> <mailto:koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>>
>> Date: Saturday, April 14, 2012, 1:40 PM
>>
>> I think you will be hard-pressed to justify calling individual
>> soldiers mercenaries - the Korean government may have received
>> funds from the US, but ROK soldiers were drafted into mandatory
>> service. If you come across documentation that individuals
>> volunteered for Vietnam in order to receive funds from the US,
>> please send such documents to me.
>>
>> Kevin Shepard, Ph.D.
>> Strategist
>> UNC/CFC/USFK
>> UCJ 5 Strategy Div.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* "koreanstudies-request at koreaweb.ws
>> <mailto:koreanstudies-request at koreaweb.ws>"
>> <koreanstudies-request at koreaweb.ws
>> <mailto:koreanstudies-request at koreaweb.ws>>
>> *To:* koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws <mailto:koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 15, 2012 1:00 AM
>> *Subject:* Koreanstudies Digest, Vol 106, Issue 9
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Discussion Question (brianhwang at berkeley.edu)
>> 2. March 2012 Issue of "Cross-Currents: East Asian History and
>> Culture Review" Available Online (Center for Korean Studies)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 10:15:24 -0700
>> From: brianhwang at berkeley.edu
>> To: koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws
>> Subject: [KS] Discussion Question
>> Message-ID:
>> <7cb59ce69b486f3c15e6bba3e396a6d4.squirrel at calmail.berkeley.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
>>
>> Hello all:
>>
>> I am a history student at University of California, Berkeley.
>> Currently I
>> am working on a paper regarding Korean involvement in the Vietnam
>> War. My
>> argument is that although Korean soldiers were 1) mercenaries
>> (because
>> they were paid predominantly by US dollars to go) and 2) anti
>> communists
>> (because of past history), the atrocities that they are accused of
>> committing are not primarily due to the aforementioned reasons, but
>> because of the type of warfare that they had to fight in Vietnam,
>> including guerrilla warfare and civilian warfare.
>>
>> Do you all think this is a valid argument? Are there any primary
>> sources
>> that would help me in my argument, including ones that attribute
>> Korean
>> atrocities to their mercenary and anticommunist nature?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:00:21 -0700
>> From: "Center for Korean Studies" <cks at berkeley.edu>
>> To: <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
>> Subject: [KS] March 2012 Issue of "Cross-Currents: East Asian History
>> and Culture Review" Available Online
>> Message-ID: <037401cd199f$4b410820$e1c31860$@berkeley.edu
>> <mailto:037401cd199f$4b410820$e1c31860$@berkeley.edu>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> March 2012 Issue of "Cross-Currents: East Asian History and
>> Culture Review" now online
>>
>> The second issue of IEAS's new, interactive e-journal
>> "Cross-Currents: East Asian History and Culture Review" is now
>> online. The theme of the March 2012 issue is "Japanese Imperial
>> Maps as Sources for East Asian History: The Past and Future of
>> the Gaih?zu" (guest edited by K?ren Wigen, professor of History
>> at Stanford). Visit
>> http://cross-currents.berkeley.edu/e-journal/issue-2 to read the
>> articles, a review essay written by Timothy Cheek (University of
>> British Columbia) about Ezra Vogel's new book on Deng Xiaoping,
>> and abstracts of important new scholarship in Chinese. The March
>> issue of the e-journal also features a photo essay by Jianhua
>> Gong documenting Shanghai's longtang alleyways.
>>
>> A joint enterprise of the Research Institute of Korean Studies at
>> Korea University (RIKS) and the Institute of East Asian Studies
>> at the University of California at Berkeley (IEAS),
>> "Cross-Currents" offers its readers up-to-date research findings,
>> emerging trends, and cutting-edge perspectives concerning East
>> Asian history and culture from scholars in both English-speaking
>> and Asian language-speaking academic communities.
>>
>>
>> * * ** **
>>
>>
>> March 2012 issue of "Cross-Currents" e-journal
>> (See http://cross-currents.berkeley.edu/e-journal/issue-2)
>>
>> *Co-Editors' Note*
>>
>> Building an Online Community of East Asia Scholars
>> Sungtaek Cho, Research Institute of Korean Studies (RIKS), Korea
>> University
>> Wen-hsin Yeh, Institute of East Asian Studies (IEAS), University
>> of California, Berkeley
>>
>> *Japanese Imperial Maps as Sources for East Asian History: The
>> Past and Future of the Gaihozu*
>>
>> Introduction to "Japanese Imperial Maps as Sources for East Asian
>> History: The Past and Future of the Gaihozu"
>> Guest editor K?ren Wigen, Stanford University
>>
>> Japanese Mapping of Asia-Pacific Areas, 1873-1945: An Overview
>> Shigeru Kobayashi, Osaka University
>>
>> Imagining Manmo: Mapping the Russo-Japanese Boundary Agreements
>> in Manchuria and Inner Mongolia, 1907-1915
>> Yoshihisa T. Matsusaka, Wellesley College
>>
>> Triangulating Chosen: Maps, Mapmaking, and the Land Survey in
>> Colonial Korea
>> David Fedman, Stanford University
>>
>> Mapping Economic Development: The South Seas Government and Sugar
>> Production in Japan's South Pacific Mandate, 1919--1941
>> Ti Ngo, University of California, Berkeley
>>
>> *Forum*
>>
>> Asian Studies/Global Studies: Transcending Area Studies and
>> Social Sciences
>> John Lie, University of California, Berkeley/
>>
>> Defenders and Conquerors: The Rhetoric of Royal Power in Korean
>> Inscriptions from the Fifth to Seventh Centuries
>> Hung-gyu Kim, Korea University
>>
>> *Review Essays and Notes*
>>
>> Of Leaders and Governance: How the Chinese Dragon Got Its Scales
>> Timothy Cheek, University of British Columbia
>>
>> A Note on the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's Visit to China
>> William C. Kirby, Harvard University
>>
>> *Photo Essay*
>>
>> "Shanghai Alleyways" by photographer Jianhua Gong
>> Essay by Xiaoneng Yang, Stanford University
>>
>> *Readings from Asia*
>>
>> Ge Zhaoguang , Dwelling in the Middle of the Country:
>> Reestablishing Histories of "China" [????:????"??"???]
>> Abstract by Wennan Liu, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences
>>
>> Wang Qisheng, Revolution and Counter-Revolution: Republican
>> Politics in Social-Cultural Scope [???????????????????]
>> Abstract by Bin Ye, Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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