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<DIV><FONT size=4>Dear George, Anthony, Clark and all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Fascinating stuff. But I fear some of you seem at</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>cross purposes, owing to </FONT><FONT size=4>varied
confusionism:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>1. The mis-spelling to which Bro Anthony refers is
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>surely of the gentleman's <STRONG>surname</STRONG>, not the
first name.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>All searches suggest the first
part should be <STRONG>Seredin</STRONG>,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>not Ser<U>i</U>din as George wrote.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>2. Whereas Afanasii /Afanasy/Afanasij is simply</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>a choice of romanizations of the Russian </FONT><FONT size=4>double vowel </FONT><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span><FONT size=3 face="Book Antiqua">ий.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span><FONT size=4 face="Book Antiqua">Thus one can say Georgii
or Georgy. The strange-looking</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span><FONT size=4 face="Book Antiqua">-ij variant is
</FONT></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span><FONT size=4 face="Book Antiqua">more unusual nowadays, I
think.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>3. Similarly, the reason why George can't find "Paul
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Moellendorf" on Google is because that is not how
his</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>name is spelled. You are missing both the final
F,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>and the Von. Other variations include his often
used</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>middle name Georg, and whether to render the
German</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>letter O with umlaut <SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: small arial, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><EM style="FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><FONT face="Book Antiqua">ö </FONT></EM></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=4>in English as
OE or simply O.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Varying your search spellings may thus yield different
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>and more results. </FONT><FONT size=4>For starters, here's
PGvM's Wikipedia entry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>(complete with a truly splendid photograph):</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Georg_von_Möllendorff"><FONT size=4>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Georg_von_Möllendorff</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>4. Finally, back to George's great-grandfather. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>M</FONT><FONT size=4>y googling </FONT><FONT size=4>throws up quite a few references where </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Seredin-Sabatin's </FONT><FONT size=4>first name is given as
<SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: small arial, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><FONT face="Book Antiqua"><FONT size=4><STRONG>Aleksey;</STRONG> in fact more </FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: small arial, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><FONT face="Book Antiqua"><FONT size=4>than those who
call him Afanasy, etc. Presumably this is </FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: small arial, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><FONT face="Book Antiqua"><FONT size=4>one and the same
person? If so, which forename is correct?</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Book Antiqua"><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: small arial, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Here are some links. T</FONT><FONT size=4>he JoongAng Ilbo
has </FONT><FONT size=4>Afanasij:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2914115"><FONT size=3>http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2914115</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2906696"><FONT size=3>http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2906696</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Most others go for Aleksey - including Gari Ledyard in
these</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>pages, way back in 1995: </FONT><FONT size=4><A href="http://koreaweb.ws/ks/ksr/queenmin.txt"><FONT size=3>http://koreaweb.ws/ks/ksr/queenmin.txt</FONT></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The Marmot (Robert Koehler) also mentions him a fair bit,
eg</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/jeongdong-the-coming-of-the-west/"><FONT size=3>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/jeongdong-the-coming-of-the-west/</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/20/deoksugung-palace-2/"><FONT size=3>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/20/deoksugung-palace-2/</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I hope these clarifications are helpful.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Good luck in your researches. Just remember to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>check all spellings, and google all possible
variants!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Cheers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Aidan FC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang=EN-GB><FONT face="Times New Roman">Aidan Foster-Carter<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="COLOR: black" lang=EN-GB><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Honorary Senior Research Fellow in Sociology
& Modern Korea, Leeds University, UK
<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></I></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black" lang=EN-GB><o:p><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black" lang=EN-GB><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Flat 1, 40 Magdalen Road,
Exeter, Devon, EX2 4TE, England, UK<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black" lang=EN-GB><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">T: (+44, no 0) <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>07970 741307 (mobile); <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-style: italic">01392 257753<SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1"> </SPAN></SPAN><I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Skype</I>: Aidan.Foster.Carter<SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-style: italic" lang=EN-GB>E: </SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black" lang=EN-GB><A title=mailto:afostercarter@aol.com href="mailto:afostercarter@aol.com">afostercarter@aol.com</A>,<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><A title=mailto:afostercarter@yahoo.com href="mailto:afostercarter@yahoo.com">afostercarter@yahoo.com</A><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1"> </SPAN>W: <A title=http://www.aidanfc.net/ href="http://www.aidanfc.net/">www.aidanfc.net</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>____________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/20/2010 04:45:39 GMT Standard Time,
georgedorian@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>Hello
Clark,<BR><BR>Thank your for your reply.<BR><BR>I found "Living Dangerously in
Korea" on Amazon. If I understand correctly,<BR>the review of the book
indicates that the book looks at Korea from 1900 to<BR>1950. My
great-grandfather was there from about 1886 to 1905. So it seems<BR>that
that book misses the mark a bit. <BR><BR>As for Paul Moellendorf; Google
seems to have no hits - that must be a<BR>first! <BR><BR>Over the last
12 months or so I've been in contact with a number of people<BR>in Korea and
Russia who are researching Afanasii, and this has renewed
my<BR>interest. I've started a Wikipedia page about him and am writing
a<BR>journal/book about my ancestors. There are a number of family
stories about<BR>my ancestors, but there are "holes" in the stories. For
example we know<BR>that Afanasii attended some kind of Naval college in St.
Petersburg, but, so<BR>far, there is no mention of him in such Russian
archives. <BR><BR>I find that researching my ancestors to be very
interesting. Like an<BR>"Easter egg hunt". As I mentioned, I
am in communication with a number of<BR>scalars (besides surfing the web) and
they each have a peace of the puzzle,<BR>it's just a matter of collecting all
the peaces. I am looking for other<BR>individuals with an interest in my
Great-grandfather so that we can<BR>"compleat the puzzle". If you feel
have a like interest in this then I<BR>would be grateful if you could help
me.<BR><BR>Sincerely, George <BR><BR>Ps, I live about 10 miles north of San
Francisco.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws<BR>[mailto:koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws]
On Behalf Of Clark W Sorensen<BR>Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:39
PM<BR>To: Korean Studies Discussion List<BR>Subject: Re: [KS] Afanasii
Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin<BR><BR>George,<BR><BR>The book that comes to mind is
Donald Clark's "Living Dangerously in Korea"<BR>that has a whole chapter on
the Russians living in Korea. I'm not sure he<BR>goes back as far as King
Kojong's reign, but it would be a start. There are<BR>undoubtely Russian
language sources on this. Maybe you could find<BR>information in the biography
of Paul Moellendorf (I don't have the exact<BR>reference, but I've seen a
title). Moellendorf was an ethnic German citizen<BR>of the Russian Empire who
worked for King Kojong in the 1880s.<BR><BR>Clark W. Sorensen, Chair<BR>Korean
Studies Program<BR>University of Washington<BR><BR>On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, George
Dorian wrote:<BR><BR>> Hello,<BR>><BR>> I am researching my
great-grandfather, Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin.<BR>> He was an
architect working (in part) for the king of Korea about 100<BR>years<BR>>
ago. I have some information about him, but I'm always looking for
more.<BR>> I'm also looking for confirmation of information and details
for<BR>information<BR>> that I have. Any help is
appreciated.<BR>><BR>> I'd also be happy to share information that I
have with intrested parties.<BR>><BR>> Thanks, George
Dorian<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/20/2010 05:23:43 GMT Standard Time,
georgedorian@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>Hello
Brother Anthony,<BR><BR>Thanks you for your reply!<BR><BR>As for the spelling
of my great-grandfather: This is a bit of a mystery. My<BR>family
records show his name spelled Afanasii. This is the way it's
spelled<BR>in Afanasii's son's, Peter's, autobiography. However, the
original was<BR>written in Russian and the translation spells it Afanasii, so
maybe the<BR>translation was wrong. In other places I've see it spelled
Afanasy. Yours<BR>is the first time I've see it spelled Afanasij.
So, as I said, a bit of a<BR>mystery. For the moment I'm using the
spelling Afanasii because that's the<BR>first I knew. <BR><BR>Thank you
for the link to the article, however I found it some days
ago.<BR><BR>Regarding the assassination of Queen Min: Have you seen
Afanasii's<BR>testimony of those events? Here is a link to
it:<BR>http://koreaweb.ws/ks/ksr/queenmin.txt<BR><BR><BR>Over the last 12
months or so I've been in contact with a number of people<BR>in Korea and
Russia who are researching Afanasii, and this has renewed
my<BR>interest. I've started a Wikipedia page about him and am writing
a<BR>journal/book about my ancestors. There are a number of family
stories about<BR>my ancestors, but there are "holes" in the stories. For
example we know<BR>that Afanasii attended some kind of Naval college in St.
Petersburg, but, so<BR>far, there is no mention of him in such Russian
archives. <BR><BR>I find that researching my ancestors to be very
interesting. Like an<BR>"Easter egg hunt". As I mentioned, I
am in communication with a number of<BR>scalars (besides surfing the web) and
they each have a peace of the puzzle,<BR>it's just a matter of collecting all
the peaces. I am looking for other<BR>individuals with an interest in my
Great-grandfather so that we can<BR>"compleat the puzzle". If you feel
that you are category then I would be<BR>grateful if you could help
me.<BR><BR>Sincerely, George <BR><BR>Ps, I live about 10 miles north of San
Francisco.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws<BR>[mailto:koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws]
On Behalf Of Brother Anthony<BR>Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:29 PM<BR>To:
Korean Studies Discussion List<BR>Subject: Re: [KS] Afanasii Ivanovich
Seridin-Sabatin<BR><BR>I hope that the way you spell your grandfather's name
in your message<BR>(Seridin-Sabatin) is a one-off error? I can find a lot of
references to him<BR>(116) doing a Google search with the spelling
Afanasij Ivanovich Seredin<BR>Sabatin (375 if you omit the first name which
has various spellings),<BR>including this article in the "JoongAng Daily" from
last
December:<BR>http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2914115
which reminds<BR>us that he was probably the only Western witness present at
the murder of<BR>the Empress Myeongseong. It would certainly be good to know
if there are<BR>longer published studies of his life and his Korean buildings.
Did he leave<BR>any diaries etc?<BR><BR>Brother Anthony<BR>Sogang University,
Korea<BR>http://hompi.sogang.ac.kr/anthony/<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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