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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Frank (if I may),<br>
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for the interesting question. Being a
native
speaker of Korean but not a linguist, I had learned something
about but did
not know as much as I should have of the complexity of the South
Korean
orthography for Chinese characters<span style=""> </span>starting
with
l/r- . I think earlier responses to your inquiry, especially those
by Mr.
Hyoungbae Lee and Mr Hang Ryeol Na, give enough information about
the
orthography. Just in case you or anyone else might be interested
in more
details, let me mention some works that I managed to skim through
in the meantime:</p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
style=""><span style="">1.<span style="font: 7pt "Times New
Roman";">
</span></span></span><a
href="http://www.hangul.or.kr/12b-1-5.htm">http://www.hangul.or.kr/12b-1-5.htm</a><span
style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
style=""><span style="">2.<span style="font: 7pt "Times New
Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">Iksop Lee & S. Robert
Ramsey, The Korean
Language (State University of New York Press, 2000), pp. 73-74
(“restrictions
on initial constants’).</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
style=""><span style="">3.<span style="font: 7pt "Times New
Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">Samuel E. Martin, A
Reference Grammar of Korean
(Charles E. Tuttle, 1992), pp. 15-17 (initial l- and r-)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(1), <span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">which is written in
Korean</span>, is Hangeul Foundation’s site
explaining the Standard <span style=""> </span>South Korean
orthography (the “Unified System”) relating to the initial
constant rule (<span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","serif";" lang="KO">두음법</span><span
style="font-family: "Batang","serif";"
lang="KO">칙</span><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">). (2) gives an account
of the
phonetic phenomenon that underlies the SK orthography. (3),
which considers
both the SK and NK orthographic systems, gives a more detailed
account of the
phenomenon, and of exceptions or inconsistencies of the systems.<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">All three works note that
there are special problems with writing <span style=""></span>in
Hangeul Korean personal names, most of which
are based on Chinese characters. Your case of</span><span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","serif";" lang="KO"> 金昌</span><span
style="font-family: "Batang","serif";"
lang="KO">烈</span><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";"> illustrates the problem
well. If
one applies the SK orthography, it should be, I think, <span
style=""> </span></span><span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","serif";" lang="KO">김창</span><span
style="font-family: "Batang","serif";"
lang="KO">렬</span><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">. While some with
the name write the name in this way, others (including, it
seems, the painter)
may write it as</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","serif";" lang="KO"> 김창</span><span
style="font-family: "Batang","serif";"
lang="KO">열</span><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">. Given the
circumstance, it is understandable that some sites write even
the name of the painter
</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","serif";" lang="KO">김창</span><span
style="font-family: "Batang","serif";"
lang="KO">열</span><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";"> as</span><span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","serif";" lang="KO"> 김창</span><span
style="font-family: "Batang","serif";"
lang="KO">렬</span><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">.<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">Incidentally, the Hangeul
site (1) holds that the SK “Unified System”
is not meant to (or should not) dictate how people should write
(or pronounce)
their names, which seems reasonable to me.<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">Please let me know if you
have any further questions I might be able to
answer. If anyone on the list cannot read (1) and have no easy
access to (2) or
(3), I will be happy to help them to access relevant portions of
(2) and (3).<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">Byeong-uk Yi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">P.S. This is my first
posting on the list, which I recently </span><span
style="font-family: "Batang","serif";">joined
in </span><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">and</span><span
style="font-family: "Batang","serif";">
greatly</span><span style="font-family:
"Batang","serif";">
enjoyed. I wish to thank all other members.</span></p>
<br>
On 12/1/2011 9:37 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:koreanstudies-request@koreaweb.ws">koreanstudies-request@koreaweb.ws</a> wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.820.1322793444.5672.koreanstudies_koreaweb.ws@koreaweb.ws"
type="cite">
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<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">Subject:
</div>
Re: [KS] -열 / -렬 (question to linguists & Korean
native speakers)</td>
</tr>
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<td>
<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">From:
</div>
Hyoungbae Lee <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hyoungl@Princeton.EDU"><hyoungl@Princeton.EDU></a></td>
</tr>
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<td>
<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">Date:
</div>
Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:03:22 +0000</td>
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<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">To:
</div>
Korean Studies Discussion List
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreaweb.ws"><koreanstudies@koreaweb.ws></a></td>
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<div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-unicode">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoPlainText">Right. This is a Hancha-to-Han'gŭl
orthography and pronunciation issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">There is a rule especially for <span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
렬</span> and <span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">률</span>
in the current
<span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">한글</span><span
lang="KO">
</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">맞춤법</span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">When <span style="font-family:
"Malgun Gothic","sans-serif";"
lang="KO">
렬</span> or <span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">률</span>
is preceded by a vowel or <span style="font-family:
"Malgun Gothic","sans-serif";"
lang="KO">ㄴ</span>(n), it should be read and written as
<span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">열</span>
or <span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
율</span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">When preceded by the other consonants,
<span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
렬</span> or <span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">률</span>
remains the same.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Some examples:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">나열</span><span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";">(</span><span
style="font-family:
"Gulim","sans-serif";" lang="KO">羅列</span><span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";">)</span><span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";"> vs. <span
lang="KO">직렬</span>(</span><span style="font-family:
"Gulim","sans-serif";" lang="KO">直列</span><span
style="font-family:
"Gulim","sans-serif";">)</span><span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">분열</span>(<span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">分裂</span>)
vs.
<span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">결렬</span>(<span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">決裂</span>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">선율</span>(<span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">旋律</span>)
vs.
<span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">외형률</span>(<span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">外形律</span>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">실패율</span>(<span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">失敗率</span>)
vs.
<span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">성공률</span>(<span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">成功率</span>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Since this rule is a part of <span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
두음법칙</span>, it does not apply to Hancha of which the
original sound is <span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
열</span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Thus <span style="font-family:
"Gulim","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
熱</span><span lang="KO"> </span>or <span
style="font-family:
"Gulim","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
悅</span><span lang="KO"> </span>is always <span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
열</span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Also note that the North Korean
orthography does not have this rule.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">For example, <span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
規律</span> and<span style="font-family:
"Gulim","sans-serif";" lang="KO">旋律 </span>are
<span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">규율</span>
and <span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
선율</span><span lang="KO"> </span>in South Korea, but <span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
규률</span><span lang="KO"> </span>and <span
style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="KO">
선률</span><span lang="KO"> </span>in North Korea.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Hyoungbae Lee<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Korean Studies Librarian<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">East Asian Library and the Gest
Collection<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Rm 307A, 33 Frist Campus Center<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Princeton University<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Princeton, NJ 08544<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Telephone: (609) 258-0417<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Fax: (609) 258-4573<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:HYOUNGL@PRINCETON.EDU">HYOUNGL@PRINCETON.EDU</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws">koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws">mailto:koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws</a>] On Behalf Of
Frank Hoffmann<br>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 5:07 AM<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreaweb.ws">koreanstudies@koreaweb.ws</a><br>
Subject: Re: [KS] -<span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="ZH-CN">열</span>
/ -<span style="font-family: "Malgun
Gothic","sans-serif";" lang="ZH-CN">렬</span>
(question to linguists & Korean native speakers)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">This is not a question that relates to
transcription ... at least not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">from Korean to Western lanuages,
rather Hanja to Han'gŭl.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Any orthographic rules for such cases?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Frank<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"><legend
class="mimeAttachmentName">Part 1.2</legend></fieldset>
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cellspacing="0" width="100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>
<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">Subject:
</div>
Re: [KS] -열 / -렬 (question to linguists & Korean
native speakers)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">From:
</div>
Frank Hoffmann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hoffmann@koreaweb.ws"><hoffmann@koreaweb.ws></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">Date:
</div>
Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:18:21 -0500</td>
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cellspacing="0" width="100%">
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<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">To:
</div>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreaweb.ws">koreanstudies@koreaweb.ws</a></td>
</tr>
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<br>
<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed;
font-size: 13px;" lang="x-unicode">Thanks for your time.
However, <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>my<span
class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> question is still open.
<br>
<br>
1. The North/South difference was not the issue ... I tried to
expain that.
<br>
2. Transcription into the Latin alpahbet was not the issue
either.
<br>
3. 金昌烈 was just an example (although a good one, and one where
this just came up again).
<br>
<br>
Let me try again -- and let me say sorry to not have been
explicit enough:
<br>
Is there any sort of orthographic rule in SOUTH Korea of how to
transcribe Hanja that can have initials ㄹ or ㅇ (e.g. 烈) when
those appear in personal names? I apologize if I am not using
the correct terminology. Therefore again my EXAMPLE (just an
example):
<br>
The painter 金昌烈 seems to prefer writing his own name as 김창열 --
that is at least how it appears on his home page at <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.kimtschang-yeul.com/html/profile.html">http://www.kimtschang-yeul.com/html/profile.html</a>
Yet, many websites and also books I have refer to him as 김창렬 --
see for example, another entry on his very own home page <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.kimtschang-yeul.com/html/board/read.asp?id=243&read=8779">http://www.kimtschang-yeul.com/html/board/read.asp?id=243&read=8779</a>
suddenly changes this to "김창렬".
<br>
Or see here:
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.chungjark.com/artists-kimchangryul.htm">http://www.chungjark.com/artists-kimchangryul.htm</a>
<br>
It seems 50:50.
<br>
The same is true for other people with an identical name ... and
also for others with other Hanja parts of their name were these
alternatives are possible.
<br>
<br>
There are no orthographic rules then?
<br>
And as a 2nd add-on questions: if there are no such rules, there
are as a consequence none for how to handle that when we mention
such names in our writings in English, French, German ..., yes?
(Fine with me, just wanted to make sure I am not missing
anything I should know.)
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
Frank
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Byeong-uk Yi
Department of Philosophy
University of Toronto
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://philosophy.utoronto.ca/people/faculty/byeong-uk-yi">http://philosophy.utoronto.ca/people/faculty/byeong-uk-yi</a>
Plurality in Classifier Languages
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.kyobobook.co.kr/product/detailViewKor.laf?mallGb=KOR&ejkGb=KOR&barcode=9788957268933">http://www.kyobobook.co.kr/product/detailViewKor.laf?mallGb=KOR&ejkGb=KOR&barcode=9788957268933</a>
ISBN 978-89-5726-893-3</pre>
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