<p dir="ltr">Dear Bill Streifer,</p>
<p dir="ltr">A woman who spent her childhood in an Indonesian concentration camp managed by Japanese told me that the workers of the camp (not the prisoners, in this case) were Koreans. The manager of the camp was Japanese.</p>
<p dir="ltr">As I learned at my Jewish Orthodox school in Gush Ezion, Israel, the Nazist treatment of Jews included complex relationship with the Jewish leadership. There was this famous case of one of Jewish ghettos in Europe, where the leader of Jewish community first supplied to Nazis goods made at the ghetto factory, then labor force, then a certain number of people, then children. The rest of the ghetto people included the leaders were killed by Nazist just a few weeks before liberation.</p>
<p dir="ltr">My specialization is 'technologies of self'. Technologies of self includes how to build a person, and how to break a person. Nazist, communist and similar regimes have a particular set of skills and techniques, that include moral/spiritual demoralization, humiliation and elimination. You can apply these techniques to a person, and also to a nation.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Victoria Ten<br>
Leiden University </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 7, 2014 2:12 AM, <<a href="mailto:koreanstudies-request@koreanstudies.com">koreanstudies-request@koreanstudies.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<br><<------------ KoreanStudies mailing list DIGEST ------------>><br>
<br>Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3<br>
Feb, 2030 ... (Gianluca Spezza)<br>
2. Re: Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3<br>
Feb, 2030 ... (<a href="mailto:Afostercarter@aol.com">Afostercarter@aol.com</a>)<br>
3. Re: Koreanstudies Digest, Vol 128, Issue 6 (Bill Streifer)<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Gianluca Spezza <<a href="mailto:spezzagianluca@gmail.com">spezzagianluca@gmail.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com">koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com</a><br>
Cc: <br>Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 16:54:46 +0200<br>Subject: Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...<br>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
yes Nicholas,<br>
<br>
actually no need to believe it. it's a fact the KPA is involved in
PUST. they built it from scratch, they run most of the facilities if
not all of them, they do the maintenance, they send some of their
children there (others go to a couple of special military
institutions in PY, pretty much as well equipped as PUST), and given
that every single bit of educational material is scrupulously
checked before it reaches the classrom, we know this is also done by
part of the military. <br>
<br>
I agree with Caroline that some of the questions in the doc were a
bit dumb (seriously, michael jackson ...of all people?) but then
again that is BBC panorama. They do have the urgency to proclaim
they found some 'incredible story' behind everything, like the
students going to the 'juche building' to receive classes in
politics, ideology and history. that has been happening since 1948
in NK, in every school, not much news there. Also such practice is
one of the pillars on which Dr. James Kim built his agreement with
the NK government (just as he did in China for YUST): zero
interference with politics/absolute lip service to the ruling
government, and it could not be otherwise or the school would have
never seen the light. <br>
<br>
However, this works for non-sensitive subjects, such as computer
science, agriculture or chemistry, it is clear that students remain
behind on many important topics: economy, private finance,
individual rights, history, media, and this all makes their
education less valuable (some say useless) outside of North Korea. <br>
<br>
The real question for me is how long can PUST continue to teach in
such a sealed-off environment and is it really worth it in terms of
'positive change for the future of North Korea and its integration
with the rest of the world'? <br>
<br>
We'll probably see very skilled agronomists and statisticians in NK
in the next years , who still won't know how life really goes on
outside of their country. What's the point?<br>
<br>
Last, one question i would have liked to ask (but I know it can't be
asked, even off the record) is: do students at PUST know about how
the university came about, who funds it and who founded it and what
is the story behind the Christian foundation that owns and runs PUST
and YUST)? <br>
<br>
I know the answer is 'no' (and this has been confirmed by all the
PUST-related people i have interviewed), because it would be very
hard to explain the that their government allowed a religious
foundation, with HQs in US and SK to run one of the top schools in
the country.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
G. Spezza - NK News<br>
<br>
<div>On 06/02/14 15:35, levi nicolas wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div>I'm probably feeling more depressed than Frank Hoffman.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also do believe that the KPA is
involved in the management of the PUST. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">De :</span></b> Caroline
Norma <a href="mailto:cazzpeta@hotmail.com" target="_blank"><cazzpeta@hotmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">À :</span></b>
Korean Studies Discussion List
<a href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com" target="_blank"><koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Envoyé le :</span></b>
Jeudi 6 février 2014 14h24<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Objet :</span></b>
Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on
BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...<br>
</font> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Yes, a truly awful documentary, but the
scene where the student points out the factory owner
would have to give up ownership, and that was the
'problem' with the task assigned, was at least one
bright moment. And how appropriate that the
presenter asked the class whether they knew who
Michael Jackson was--the biggest symbol of
decadent, paedophilic, drugged up western social
decline anyone could think of. It was almost a
relief they had no idea.
<div>Many thanks for forwarding the link.</div>
<div>Caroline Norma<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div>> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 10:21:55 -0800<br clear="none">
> From: <a href="mailto:hoffmann@koreanstudies.com" target="_blank">hoffmann@koreanstudies.com</a><br clear="none">
> To: <a href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com" target="_blank">koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com</a><br clear="none">
> Subject: Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of
Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3
Feb, 2030 ...<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> Dear Aidan -- sure, can amplify and
magnify, quantify and objectify, <br clear="none">
> but it shall just be another stultifying
experience. That is not needed.<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> Frank<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 09:47:50 -0500 (EST),
<a href="mailto:Afostercarter@aol.com" target="_blank">Afostercarter@aol.com</a> wrote:<br clear="none">
> > Frank, this has to be your shortest
post ever.<br clear="none">
> > Care to amplify?<br clear="none">
> > <br clear="none">
> > Best<br clear="none">
> > Aidan<br clear="none">
> > <br clear="none">
> > __________________<br clear="none">
> > <br clear="none">
> > In a message dated 05/02/2014
12:34:30 GMT Standard Time, <br clear="none">
> > <a href="mailto:hoffmann@koreanstudies.com" target="_blank">hoffmann@koreanstudies.com</a> writes:<br clear="none">
> >> <br clear="none">
> >> How depressing.<br clear="none">
> >> <br clear="none">
> >> Regards,<br clear="none">
> >> Frank<br clear="none">
> >> <br clear="none">
> >> <br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <a href="mailto:Afostercarter@aol.com">Afostercarter@aol.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com">koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com</a><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:baks@jiscmail.ac.uk">baks@jiscmail.ac.uk</a><br>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:05:12 -0500 (EST)<br>Subject: Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...<br><u></u>
<div style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Cambria"><font color="#000000" size="4" face="Cambria">
<div><font size="4">So already a fruitful debate begins. I hope it
continues.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">I was curious as to what in particular had depressed
Frank.</font></div>
<div><font size="4">The BBC programme? Or PUST itself? Or both?</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Others' responses so far vary on this point.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">For my part, I'm not entirely depressed about
either.</font></div>
<div><font size="4">It seems to me a net gain, and amazing, that PUST exists at
all.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">As for the programme could have been worse
(Sweeney!)</font></div>
<div><font size="4">- though also much better. <em>Why on earth did no one
ask</em></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><em><u>why</u> the students are all male?</em></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><em></em></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">And while I'm being a big softie, imho Caroline is a
bit</font></div>
<div><font size="4">hard on the late great sad MJ: also a victim. But
she</font></div>
<div><font size="4">has the DPRK's British fan-club on her side:</font></div>
<div><a href="http://juche007-anglo-peopleskoreafriendship.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/old-and-new-lies-bbc-panorma-educating.html" target="_blank"><font size="1">http://juche007-anglo-peopleskoreafriendship.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/old-and-new-lies-bbc-panorma-educating.html</font></a></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="4"><em>... the people
of the DPRK are better off without the degenerate </em></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt"><em><font size="4">whooping
</font><font size="4">and screeching sounds of Michael
Jackson!</font></em></p></font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">Cheers</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Aidan FC</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">_________________________</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>In a message dated 06/02/2014 13:39:49 GMT Standard Time,
<a href="mailto:nicolas_levi@yahoo.fr" target="_blank">nicolas_levi@yahoo.fr</a> writes:</div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:blue 2px solid"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent" color="#000000" face="Arial">
<div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div>I'm probably feeling more depressed than Frank Hoffman.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif">I
also do believe that the KPA is involved in the management of the
PUST. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">De :</span></b> Caroline Norma
<<a href="mailto:cazzpeta@hotmail.com" target="_blank">cazzpeta@hotmail.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">À :</span></b> Korean Studies Discussion List
<<a href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com" target="_blank">koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Envoyé le :</span></b> Jeudi 6 février 2014
14h24<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Objet :</span></b> Re: [KS]
Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030
...<br></font></div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Yes, a truly awful documentary, but the scene where the student
points out the factory owner would have to give up ownership, and that was the
'problem' with the task assigned, was at least one bright moment. And how
appropriate that the presenter asked the class whether they knew who Michael
Jackson was--the biggest symbol of decadent, paedophilic, drugged up
western social decline anyone could think of. It was almost a relief they had
no idea.
<div>Many thanks for forwarding the link.</div>
<div>Caroline Norma<br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div>
<div>> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 10:21:55 -0800<br clear="none">> From:
<a href="mailto:hoffmann@koreanstudies.com" target="_blank">hoffmann@koreanstudies.com</a><br clear="none">> To:
<a href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com" target="_blank">koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com</a><br clear="none">> Subject: Re: [KS] Pyongyang
Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Dear Aidan -- sure, can amplify and
magnify, quantify and objectify, <br clear="none">> but it shall just be
another stultifying experience. That is not needed.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Frank<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> On Wed, 5 Feb 2014
09:47:50 -0500 (EST), <a href="mailto:Afostercarter@aol.com" target="_blank">Afostercarter@aol.com</a> wrote:<br clear="none">> >
Frank, this has to be your shortest post ever.<br clear="none">> > Care to
amplify?<br clear="none">> > <br clear="none">> > Best<br clear="none">> > Aidan<br clear="none">> > <br clear="none">> >
__________________<br clear="none">> > <br clear="none">> > In a
message dated 05/02/2014 12:34:30 GMT Standard Time, <br clear="none">> >
<a href="mailto:hoffmann@koreanstudies.com" target="_blank">hoffmann@koreanstudies.com</a> writes:<br clear="none">> >> <br clear="none">> >> How depressing.<br clear="none">> >> <br clear="none">
> >> Regards,<br clear="none">> >> Frank<br clear="none">> >> <br clear="none">> >> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none"></div></div></div>
<div></div></div></div></div><br><br></div></div></div></div></font></blockquote></div></font></div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Bill Streifer <<a href="mailto:photografr7@yahoo.com">photografr7@yahoo.com</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com">koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com">koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com</a>><br>Cc: <br>Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:56:00 -0800 (PST)<br>
Subject: Re: [KS] Koreanstudies Digest, Vol 128, Issue 6<br><div><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif"><div><span>Saying the Japanese forced Koreans to do the "dirty work" at camps is like saying the Nazis were "mean" to the Jews. Having studied the specific atrocities perpetrated by the Japanese on British POWs at a camp at Konan, Korea during WWII (including beheadings, beatings and starvation), I can assure you that the treatment of Koreans by the Japanese was far worse than doing the dishes. </span><span style="background-color:transparent">By the way, I obtained my information from the children of former British and Australian POWs as well the official written statements of survivors. So before you begin thinking of adding the Japanese mistreatment of Koreans to school textbooks, you had better understand the full-extent and types of atrocities involved. </span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"><span><br></span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
<span>- Bill Streifer</span></div> </div></div><br></blockquote></div>