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<DIV><EM><FONT size=3>Sorry for a small typo in my last post. A corrected
version is below.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Gianluca raises some important questions here. Two
thoughts:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>1. <U>Military</U>. What exactly is the evidence for the
KPA's alleged role in PUST?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>If they built it, that would be no surprise; they build many
things.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>If generals send their sons there, no surprise either; indeed
the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Panorama programme said as much.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>But if they in any sense run it, that is another question. Or
to be precise,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>is it being claimed that the DPRK counterparts with
whom PUST must </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>liaise </FONT><FONT size=4>are military, rather than Party or
the education ministry?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Does PUST itself have any statement on this?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>2. <U>Syllabus</U>. I would put it a bit differently. On the
sciences side, I do</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>wonder what exactly PUST is adding, given that the DPRK's
own</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>universities are heavily science and technology-oriented
already. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>What surely is distinctive, as seen in the programme, is the
business</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>major. As I understand, this is North Korea's first MBA. And
as we saw,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>you can't begin to teach in those areas without raising and
confronting</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4> matters well beyond the </FONT><FONT size=4>scope of
official DPRK discourse.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Finally, we know of old that under totalitarianism people live
a double</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>life, and are very skilled at it - including of course showing
no trace of it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I would be amazed if any PUST student was unaware of who is
running</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>their school and why. But it was rather juvenile, and a bit
irresponsible,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>for Panorama to keep prodding in the hope of getting somebody
to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>go off-message on camera. Of course they wouldn't do
that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I remain a net optimist regarding PUST.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Cheers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Aidan FC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; tab-stops: 120.0pt 180.0pt"><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Cambria; COLOR: black"><FONT size=3>Aidan
Foster-Carter<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; tab-stops: 120.0pt 180.0pt"><FONT
size=3><I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Cambria; COLOR: black">Honorary Senior Research Fellow in
Sociology & Modern <st1:country-region w:st="on">Korea</st1:country-region>,
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Leeds University</st1:City>,
<st1:country-region
w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region></st1:place></SPAN></I><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: Cambria; COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; tab-stops: 120.0pt 180.0pt"><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; tab-stops: 120.0pt 180.0pt"><FONT
size=3><EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Cambria; COLOR: black">E</SPAN></EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Cambria; COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-style: italic">: <A
title=mailto:afostercarter@aol.com href="mailto:afostercarter@aol.com"><FONT
color=#0000ff>afostercarter@aol.com</FONT></A><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><A
title=mailto:afostercarter@yahoo.com href="mailto:afostercarter@yahoo.com"><FONT
color=#0000ff>afostercarter@yahoo.com</FONT></A><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Cambria">W</SPAN></EM>: <A title=http://www.aidanfc.net/
href="http://www.aidanfc.net/"><FONT
color=#0000ff>www.aidanfc.net</FONT></A><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; tab-stops: 120.0pt 180.0pt"><FONT
size=3><I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Cambria; COLOR: black">Skype</SPAN></I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Cambria; COLOR: black">:<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Aidan.Foster.Carter <SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 2">
</SPAN><EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Cambria">Twitter:</SPAN></EM><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>@fcaidan<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>________________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>
<DIV><FONT size=3>In a message dated 06/02/2014 22:35:08 GMT Standard Time,
Afostercarter@aol.com writes:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial><FONT
color=#000000 size=4 face=Cambria>
<DIV><FONT size=3>So already a fruitful debate begins. I hope it
continues.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>I was curious as to what in particular had depressed
Frank.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>The BBC programme? Or PUST itself? Or both?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Others' responses so far vary on this point.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>For my part, I'm not entirely depressed about
either.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>It seems to me a net gain, and amazing, that PUST exists at
all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>As for the programme, it could have been worse
(Sweeney!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>- though also much better. <EM>Why on earth did no one
ask</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=3><U>why</U> the students are all male?</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=3></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>And while I'm being a big softie, imho Caroline is a
bit</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>hard on the late great sad MJ: also a victim. But
she</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>has the DPRK's British fan-club on her side:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A
title=http://juche007-anglo-peopleskoreafriendship.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/old-and-new-lies-bbc-panorma-educating.html
href="http://juche007-anglo-peopleskoreafriendship.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/old-and-new-lies-bbc-panorma-educating.html"><FONT
size=3>http://juche007-anglo-peopleskoreafriendship.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/old-and-new-lies-bbc-panorma-educating.html</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><EM><FONT size=3>... the people
of the DPRK are better off without the degenerate </FONT></EM></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><EM><FONT size=3>whooping
and screeching sounds of Michael Jackson!</FONT></EM></P></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Cheers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Aidan FC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>___________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 06/02/2014 22:35:36 GMT Standard Time,
spezzagianluca@gmail.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>yes
Nicholas,<BR><BR>actually no need to believe it. it's a fact the KPA is
involved in PUST. they built it from scratch, they run most of the facilities
if not all of them, they do the maintenance, they send some of their children
there (others go to a couple of special military institutions in PY, pretty
much as well equipped as PUST), and given that every single bit of educational
material is scrupulously checked before it reaches the classrom, we know this
is also done by part of the military. <BR><BR>I agree with Caroline that some
of the questions in the doc were a bit dumb (seriously, michael jackson ...of
all people?) but then again that is BBC panorama. They do have the urgency to
proclaim they found some 'incredible story' behind everything, like the
students going to the 'juche building' to receive classes in politics,
ideology and history. that has been happening since 1948 in NK, in every
school, not much news there. Also such practice is one of the pillars on which
Dr. James Kim built his agreement with the NK government (just as he did in
China for YUST): zero interference with politics/absolute lip service to the
ruling government, and it could not be otherwise or the school would have
never seen the light. <BR><BR>However, this works for non-sensitive
subjects, such as computer science, agriculture or chemistry, it is clear that
students remain behind on many important topics: economy, private finance,
individual rights, history, media, and this all makes their education less
valuable (some say useless) outside of North Korea. <BR><BR>The real question
for me is how long can PUST continue to teach in such a sealed-off environment
and is it really worth it in terms of 'positive change for the future of North
Korea and its integration with the rest of the world'? <BR><BR>We'll probably
see very skilled agronomists and statisticians in NK in the next years , who
still won't know how life really goes on outside of their country. What's the
point?<BR><BR>Last, one question i would have liked to ask (but I know it
can't be asked, even off the record) is: do students at PUST know about
how the university came about, who funds it and who founded it and what is the
story behind the Christian foundation that owns and runs PUST and YUST)?
<BR><BR>I know the answer is 'no' (and this has been confirmed by all the
PUST-related people i have interviewed), because it would be very hard to
explain the that their government allowed a religious foundation, with HQs in
US and SK to run one of the top schools in the
country.<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>G. Spezza - NK News<BR><BR>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>On 06/02/14 15:35, levi nicolas wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
cite=mid:1391693733.73296.YahooMailNeo@web171304.mail.ir2.yahoo.com
type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV>I'm probably feeling more depressed than Frank Hoffman.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida
Grande', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">I
also do believe that the KPA is involved in the management of the
PUST. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif">
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<HR SIZE=1>
<FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">De :</SPAN></B> Caroline Norma <A
title=mailto:cazzpeta@hotmail.com class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:cazzpeta@hotmail.com"><cazzpeta@hotmail.com></A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">À :</SPAN></B> Korean Studies Discussion List
<A title=mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com"><koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com></A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Envoyé le :</SPAN></B> Jeudi 6
février 2014 14h24<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Objet :</SPAN></B> Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of
Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=y_msg_container><BR>
<DIV id=yiv8219851806>
<STYLE>#yiv8219851806 #yiv8219851806 --
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<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Yes, a truly awful documentary, but the scene where the student
points out the factory owner would have to give up ownership, and that was
the 'problem' with the task assigned, was at least one bright moment. And
how appropriate that the presenter asked the class whether they knew who
Michael Jackson was--the biggest symbol of decadent, paedophilic,
drugged up western social decline anyone could think of. It was almost a
relief they had no idea.
<DIV>Many thanks for forwarding the link.</DIV>
<DIV>Caroline Norma<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<DIV id=yiv8219851806yqtfd82822 class=yiv8219851806yqt8215164628>
<DIV>> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 10:21:55 -0800<BR clear=none>> From: <A
title=mailto:hoffmann@koreanstudies.com class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:hoffmann@koreanstudies.com">hoffmann@koreanstudies.com</A><BR
clear=none>> To: <A title=mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com">koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com</A><BR
clear=none>> Subject: Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech
(PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...<BR clear=none>> <BR
clear=none>> Dear Aidan -- sure, can amplify and magnify, quantify and
objectify, <BR clear=none>> but it shall just be another stultifying
experience. That is not needed.<BR clear=none>> <BR clear=none>>
Frank<BR clear=none>> <BR clear=none>> <BR clear=none>> <BR
clear=none>> <BR clear=none>> On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 09:47:50 -0500 (EST),
<A title=mailto:Afostercarter@aol.com class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:Afostercarter@aol.com">Afostercarter@aol.com</A> wrote:<BR
clear=none>> > Frank, this has to be your shortest post ever.<BR
clear=none>> > Care to amplify?<BR clear=none>> > <BR
clear=none>> > Best<BR clear=none>> > Aidan<BR clear=none>>
> <BR clear=none>> > __________________<BR clear=none>> > <BR
clear=none>> > In a message dated 05/02/2014 12:34:30 GMT Standard
Time, <BR clear=none>> > <A title=mailto:hoffmann@koreanstudies.com
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:hoffmann@koreanstudies.com">hoffmann@koreanstudies.com</A>
writes:<BR clear=none>> >> <BR clear=none>> >> How
depressing.<BR clear=none>> >> <BR clear=none>> >>
Regards,<BR clear=none>> >> Frank<BR clear=none>> >> <BR
clear=none>> >> <BR clear=none>> <BR
clear=none></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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