<html><head><title>Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...</title>
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<span style=" font-family:'Arial'; font-size: 12pt;">I agree, Aidan. The documetary was actually quite good, in a number of (I suppose unintended) subtle ways.<br>
Best,<br>
Rudiger<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
on Freitag, 07. Februar 2014 at 08:20 you wrote:<br>
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<td width=800><span style=" font-family:'cambria'; font-size: 11pt;"><i>Sorry for a small typo in my last post. A corrected version is below.<br>
</i><span style=" font-size: 14pt;"> <br>
Gianluca raises some important questions here. Two thoughts:<br>
<br>
1. <u>Military</u>. What exactly is the evidence for the KPA's alleged role in PUST?<br>
If they built it, that would be no surprise; they build many things.<br>
If generals send their sons there, no surprise either; indeed the<br>
Panorama programme said as much.<br>
<br>
But if they in any sense run it, that is another question. Or to be precise,<br>
is it being claimed that the DPRK counterparts with whom PUST must <br>
liaise are military, rather than Party or the education ministry?<br>
Does PUST itself have any statement on this?<br>
<br>
2. <u>Syllabus</u>. I would put it a bit differently. On the sciences side, I do<br>
wonder what exactly PUST is adding, given that the DPRK's own<br>
universities are heavily science and technology-oriented already. <br>
<br>
What surely is distinctive, as seen in the programme, is the business<br>
major. As I understand, this is North Korea's first MBA. And as we saw,<br>
you can't begin to teach in those areas without raising and confronting<br>
matters well beyond the scope of official DPRK discourse.<br>
<br>
Finally, we know of old that under totalitarianism people live a double<br>
life, and are very skilled at it - including of course showing no trace of it.<br>
I would be amazed if any PUST student was unaware of who is running<br>
their school and why. But it was rather juvenile, and a bit irresponsible,<br>
for Panorama to keep prodding in the hope of getting somebody to<br>
go off-message on camera. Of course they wouldn't do that.<br>
<br>
I remain a net optimist regarding PUST.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
Aidan FC<br>
<br>
<span style=" font-size: 11pt;"><b>Aidan Foster-Carter<br>
</b><i>Honorary Senior Research Fellow in Sociology & Modern Korea, Leeds University, UK<br>
<span style=" font-size: 8pt;"> <br>
<span style=" font-size: 11pt;">E</span></span></i>: </span></span></span><a style=" font-family:'cambria'; font-size: 11pt;" href="mailto:afostercarter@aol.com">afostercarter@aol.com</a><span style=" font-family:'cambria'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><a style=" font-family:'cambria'; font-size: 11pt;" href="mailto:afostercarter@yahoo.com">afostercarter@yahoo.com</a><span style=" font-family:'cambria'; font-size: 11pt;"> <i>W</i>: </span><a style=" font-family:'cambria'; font-size: 11pt;" href="http://www.aidanfc.net/">www.aidanfc.net</a><span style=" font-family:'cambria'; font-size: 11pt;"> <br>
<i>Skype</i>: Aidan.Foster.Carter <i>Twitter:</i> @fcaidan <br>
<span style=" font-size: 14pt;">________________________<br>
<br>
<span style=" font-size: 11pt;">In a message dated 06/02/2014 22:35:08 GMT Standard Time, Afostercarter@aol.com writes:<br>
So already a fruitful debate begins. I hope it continues.<br>
<span style=" font-size: 14pt;"> <br>
<span style=" font-size: 11pt;">I was curious as to what in particular had depressed Frank.<br>
The BBC programme? Or PUST itself? Or both?<br>
Others' responses so far vary on this point.<br>
<span style=" font-size: 14pt;"> <br>
<span style=" font-size: 11pt;">For my part, I'm not entirely depressed about either.<br>
It seems to me a net gain, and amazing, that PUST exists at all.<br>
<span style=" font-size: 14pt;"> <br>
<span style=" font-size: 11pt;">As for the programme, it could have been worse (Sweeney!)<br>
- though also much better. <i>Why on earth did no one ask<br>
<u>why</u> the students are all male?<br>
</i><span style=" font-size: 14pt;"> <br>
<span style=" font-size: 11pt;">And while I'm being a big softie, imho Caroline is a bit<br>
hard on the late great sad MJ: also a victim. But she<br>
has the DPRK's British fan-club on her side:<br>
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><a style=" font-family:'cambria'; font-size: 11pt;" href="http://juche007-anglo-peopleskoreafriendship.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/old-and-new-lies-bbc-panorma-educating.html">http://juche007-anglo-peopleskoreafriendship.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/old-and-new-lies-bbc-panorma-educating.html</a><br>
<span style=" font-family:'cambria'; font-size: 14pt;"> <br>
<span style=" font-family:'times new roman'; font-size: 11pt;"><i>... the people of the DPRK are better off without the degenerate <br>
whooping and screeching sounds of Michael Jackson!<br>
</i><span style=" font-family:'cambria'; font-size: 14pt;"> <br>
<span style=" font-size: 11pt;">Cheers<br>
Aidan FC<br>
<span style=" font-size: 14pt;"> <br>
<br>
___________________<br>
In a message dated 06/02/2014 22:35:36 GMT Standard Time, spezzagianluca@gmail.com writes:<br>
<span style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 9pt;">yes Nicholas,<br>
<br>
actually no need to believe it. it's a fact the KPA is involved in PUST. they built it from scratch, they run most of the facilities if not all of them, they do the maintenance, they send some of their children there (others go to a couple of special military institutions in PY, pretty much as well equipped as PUST), and given that every single bit of educational material is scrupulously checked before it reaches the classrom, we know this is also done by part of the military. <br>
<br>
I agree with Caroline that some of the questions in the doc were a bit dumb (seriously, michael jackson ...of all people?) but then again that is BBC panorama. They do have the urgency to proclaim they found some 'incredible story' behind everything, like the students going to the 'juche building' to receive classes in politics, ideology and history. that has been happening since 1948 in NK, in every school, not much news there. Also such practice is one of the pillars on which Dr. James Kim built his agreement with the NK government (just as he did in China for YUST): zero interference with politics/absolute lip service to the ruling government, and it could not be otherwise or the school would have never seen the light. <br>
<br>
However, this works for non-sensitive subjects, such as computer science, agriculture or chemistry, it is clear that students remain behind on many important topics: economy, private finance, individual rights, history, media, and this all makes their education less valuable (some say useless) outside of North Korea. <br>
<br>
The real question for me is how long can PUST continue to teach in such a sealed-off environment and is it really worth it in terms of 'positive change for the future of North Korea and its integration with the rest of the world'? <br>
<br>
We'll probably see very skilled agronomists and statisticians in NK in the next years , who still won't know how life really goes on outside of their country. What's the point?<br>
<br>
Last, one question i would have liked to ask (but I know it can't be asked, even off the record) is: do students at PUST know about how the university came about, who funds it and who founded it and what is the story behind the Christian foundation that owns and runs PUST and YUST)? <br>
<br>
I know the answer is 'no' (and this has been confirmed by all the PUST-related people i have interviewed), because it would be very hard to explain the that their government allowed a religious foundation, with HQs in US and SK to run one of the top schools in the country.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
G. Spezza - NK News<br>
<br>
On 06/02/14 15:35, levi nicolas wrote:<br>
<span style=" font-size: 10pt;">I'm probably feeling more depressed than Frank Hoffman.<br>
<br>
I also do believe that the KPA is involved in the management of the PUST. <br>
<br>
<hr noshade size=2><span style=" font-size: 9pt;"><b>De :</b> Caroline Norma </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><a style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 9pt;" href="mailto:cazzpeta@hotmail.com"><cazzpeta@hotmail.com></a><br>
<span style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 9pt;"><b>À :</b> Korean Studies Discussion List </span><a style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 9pt;" href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com"><koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com></a><span style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 9pt;"> <br>
<b>Envoyé le :</b> Jeudi 6 février 2014 14h24<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...<br>
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<span style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 12pt;">Yes, a truly awful documentary, but the scene where the student points out the factory owner would have to give up ownership, and that was the 'problem' with the task assigned, was at least one bright moment. And how appropriate that the presenter asked the class whether they knew who Michael Jackson was--the biggest symbol of decadent, paedophilic, drugged up western social decline anyone could think of. It was almost a relief they had no idea. <br>
Many thanks for forwarding the link.<br>
Caroline Norma<br>
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> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 10:21:55 -0800<br>
> From: </span><a style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 12pt;" href="mailto:hoffmann@koreanstudies.com">hoffmann@koreanstudies.com</a><br>
<span style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 12pt;">> To: </span><a style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 12pt;" href="mailto:koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com">koreanstudies@koreanstudies.com</a><br>
<span style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 12pt;">> Subject: Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...<br>
> <br>
> Dear Aidan -- sure, can amplify and magnify, quantify and objectify, <br>
> but it shall just be another stultifying experience. That is not needed.<br>
> <br>
> Frank<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 09:47:50 -0500 (EST), </span><a style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 12pt;" href="mailto:afostercarter@aol.com">Afostercarter@aol.com</a><span style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 12pt;"> wrote:<br>
> > Frank, this has to be your shortest post ever.<br>
> > Care to amplify?<br>
> > <br>
> > Best<br>
> > Aidan<br>
> > <br>
> > __________________<br>
> > <br>
> > In a message dated 05/02/2014 12:34:30 GMT Standard Time, <br>
> > </span><a style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 12pt;" href="mailto:hoffmann@koreanstudies.com">hoffmann@koreanstudies.com</a><span style=" font-family:'arial'; font-size: 12pt;"> writes:<br>
> >> <br>
> >> How depressing.<br>
> >> <br>
> >> Regards,<br>
> >> Frank<br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> <br>
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