[KS] Korean protest

don kirk kirkdon at yahoo.com
Fri May 8 21:19:25 EDT 2009


I would very much hope the nature of this spirited exchange regarding Korean protest is not the reason why Mr. Maass seems to want to drop off the list. His comment was one of the  more sobering and balanced that I have seen. It's not likely that anything that anyone says or offers by way of evidence or proof will dissuade the professor from Gwangju of his views. He began the discussion by citing as more or less gospel an article in Hankyoreh Sinmun. Hankyoreh since its founding more than 20 years ago has been an important and sometimes well informed voice and has published many interesting articles. No one interested in full understanding of a protest or demo wd accept a Hankyoreh article as definitive. Hankyoreh is now having severe problems staying afloat, in paying staff and selling papers. It's to be hoped it survives and prospers with the same mix of views and exposes as a voice from a particular viewpoint. In all these "threats," a couple of
 issues stick out. One is the professor from Gwangju seems to think we should all be taking name lists at demos so we can say for sure, this person was at this one and again at this one. To take down names would not be a good idea. We're there to observe and report, as I did on any number of occasions during the anti-U.S.-beef demos, not to form name lists. Another is he seems to think the PSPD was not there at the outset of those demos. The high schoolers or whoever he cites as knowledgeable may not be fully aware of it, but the PSPD is proud of its role from the start. Again, like Hankyoreh, the PSPD has counterbalanced conservative forces, serving as a gadfly with numerous reports and exposes. Clearly, however, it's a politically activist group, as seen in the anti-U.S. beef demos. If anyone thinks these demos were entirely non-violent, he or she wasn't there. Nor was I on May 1 (wish I had been). During the anti-beef demos, night after night, a hard
 core assaulted  the police barriers, inflicting enormous damage. At the risk of inspirijng the professor from Gwangju to ask for names, I can say the banners of the groups at the forefront were the same night after night, and they're the same at those street corner protests and lesser demos, and the same faces do show up. (No, I'm not now going to start taking names to satisfy the professor from Gwangju.) And those "press conferences" are shout sessions in which speakers rant and rave, people cheer -- and, of course, no one imagines asking questions, which no one (again possibly excluding the professor from Gwangju) thinks are expected. Hopefully they will be able to continue doing so. Certainly people have been able to stage all manner of protests, large and small, a colorful element of the local scene. Most of these demos, including the anti-beef ones, before they turned violent, have official police sanction. No doubt only a small minority are
 responsible for the violence. That's how it always is. If they do turn violent, however, someone's got to try to stop it. If the professor from Gwangju wd like to suggest names of people or agencies who might keep the lid on violence, I hope he will do so.(He might also want to let us know who he thinks should carry the necessary body armor, masks etc to ward off the blows of that violent core.) At the same time, I would urge Mr. Maass not to let these vituperations discourage him from remaining on the list -- and offering corrective criticism.
Donald Kirk

--- On Fri, 5/8/09, Matthias MAASS <mm at mmaass.net> wrote:

From: Matthias MAASS <mm at mmaass.net>
Subject: [KS] unsubscribe
To: "'Korean Studies Discussion List'" <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 11:05 AM

Dear List Manager,

Could you please unsubscribe me (or kindly let me know how to do that?)

Thanks and kind regards,
Matthias Maass

-----Original Message-----
From: koreanstudies-bounces at koreaweb.ws [mailto:koreanstudies-bounces at koreaweb.ws] On Behalf Of george katsiaficas
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:54 PM
To: Korean Studies Discussion List; Eugene Y. Park
Subject: Re: [KS] South Korea's Rollback of Democratic Rights

Dear all,

I appreciate Eugene's points on the two streams of thought about this issue,
and I empathize with his sense that we may be being monitored. Eugene also
raises the issue of manipulation of facts.

Scott Burgeson is giving data for a protest on May 25, 2008 and claiming it
was the first candlelight protest. Moreover, he cites one of the most
unreliable newspapers in Korea for the source of his information (the Chosun
Ilbo). 

The first candlelight protest occurred on May 2, 2008, when something like
35,000 people organized by high school girls using Internet music fan sites
(and without posters) assembled against US beef. At that protest, PSPD was
not involved, nor apparently did they even know about it in advance. (I
interviewed several of their staff members and high school girls to verify
this.)

If anyone can link PSPD to the May 2, 2008 protest, I would be most
interested. 

Similarly, I would be all ears if anyone can verify that the arrested
individuals at the press conference on May 4, 2009 are identical to the
"specific individuals" who took over the stage at the city government's Hi
Seoul Festival on May 2, 2009, as Scott Burgeson reported to the list. Mr.
Burgeson cannot substantiate his claim--although his lack of evidence does
not keep him from admitting the inaccuracy, at a minimum, of his phrase,
"specific individuals."

Mr. Burgeson has repeatedly made inaccurate claims to back up equally
invalid allegations. On a list like this (oriented to academic membership),
we should all insist upon accuracy of reported data.

On that, I think we can all agree.

george katsiaficas
Gwangju


> From: "Eugene Y. Park" <eugene.y.park at uci.edu>
> Reply-To: Korean Studies Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
> Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 21:21:21 -0700 (PDT)
> To: Korean Studies Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
> Subject: Re: [KS] South Korea's Rollback of Democratic Rights
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> I can see where the various discussants are coming from--that is Scott on
> the one hand and George and Michael on the other. It seems to me that this
> discussion is now considering the question of whether anyone can
> rightfully criticize the South Korean police (if not the Lee MB govt. in
> general) in light of how the various groups/people critical of the govt.
> have been behaving at press conferences, candle light vigils,
> demonstrations, etc.
> 
> I'm following this discussion with mixed thoughts and feelings. For sure,
> I cannot agree more with Scott on his point that many among those
> complaining about South Korea's rollback of democratic rights resort to
> hypocrisy, manipulation, and violence. At the same time, overall I agree
> more with George and Michael on their observations that the values that
> many of us cherish such as (responsible?) freedom of speech and press,
> right to assembly, etc. are being challenged in S. Korea. Frankly, even as
> I'm writing this posting I wonder whether somebody might be monitoring me
> as some sort of an anti-(S. Korean) govt. blabber mouth. Not so much a
> exaggerated sense of self-importance, I don't think my concern is entirely
> unfounded in that again, the SNU professors who participated in an
> anti-"grand canal" forum actually got visited by police investigators who
> questioned them on whether they had any political motives or had
> connections to the opposition! (In 2007-08 I was at SNU as a research
> fellow.) At the forum, these professors had simply advanced their
> respective arguments on why Lee MB's grand canal idea may not be sensible.
> No hypocrisy, no manipulation, no violence--as far as I could tell.
> 
> In sum, maybe there are two different tracks for us to consider vis-a-vis
> this "South Korea's Rollback to Democratic Rights" discussion: one,
> Scott's  point that we need to think seriously about who the complainers
> are before taking their complaints too seriously; and two, George and
> Michael's points that the complaints themselves are indeed well grounded.
> As much as I agree more with George and Michael, I'm open to both threads.
> 
> Yours,
> Gene
> 
> 
> On Thu, 5 7, 2009 14:04, george katsiaficas wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> Of all the troubling initiatives undertaken by the Lee MB government, none
>> is more unsettling than its offensive against the media. In July 2008, MBC
>> producers were taken to court for alleged exaggerations in their
>> documentary
>> on US beef imports, and when they refused to show up to the hearing, over
>> the next ten months they have been arrested one by one as they went about
>> their daily lives (including a bride-to-be planning her wedding). In
>> August
>> 2008, the KBS president was forced to resign?and even briefly
>> detained?before being replaced with Lee퉠 crony. The president of Arirang
>> news channel was changed to a friend of the president. The 24-hour
>> all-news
>> cable station YTN was sent a new president. When union leaders and members
>> sought to block him from coming to work, police intervened. Union leaders
>> were repeatedly summoned for questioning. Even though they complied four
>> times, they were arrested. The internet has also been under close
>> scrutiny.
>> On July 24, Google Korea came under pressure from the government,
>> confirming
>> it had been pressured to delete two pieces of video footage showing the
>> brother of the National Police Commissioner managing a hotel that allowed
>> prostitution. Minerva, a blogger who had correctly reported on the global
>> crisis and embarrassed the government by revealing its incompetent
>> handling
>> of the economy, was tracked down and prosecuted (although subsequently
>> exonerated). New restrictive requirements for internet postings have been
>> implemented.
>> 
>> The government's attempt to control the media is so intense that it is now
>> criminalizing even citizens who hold press conferences (claiming they
>> speak
>> too loudly or in synch with each other). Attempts to justify such
>> egregious
>> violations of freedom of speech include equating those holding press
>> conferences with any protester in the streets.
>> 
>> Were the human rights activists arrested at a press conference on May 4
>> (where they were protesting the arrests of people commemorating the
>> anniversary of candlelight vigils) identical to the "specific individuals"
>> who took over the stage at the city government's Hi Seoul Festival on May
>> 2,
>> as Scott Burgeson reported to the list? Apparently not.
>> 
>> Mr. Burgeson fails to provide specific facts to support his initial
>> statement--which he reported to all of us as truth. I would request that
>> Mr.
>> Burgeson abandon his culturally questionable projections on similarities
>> in
>> people's external appearances and provide us with solid facts on the
>> "specific individuals" to whom he referred.
>> 
>> He now tells us that "It is always the protesters who attack the police
>> first." Last July, I was at a peaceful candlelight protest in Seoul. As it
>> ended in the rain and people were leaving, I saw police brutalize high
>> school girls for no apparent reason. As the girls cried and retreated from
>> police baton blows, they continued to be pushed and struck.
>> 
>> Since last August, I have been waiting for Mr. Burgeson to provide us with
>> details of his assertion that PSPD organized the initial candlelight
>> protests a year ago. I suspect we will wait even longer for him to provide
>> with factual substantiation of his latest bits of manufactured news.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> george katsiaficas
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Michael Braverman-Scult <mbscult at gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: Korean Studies Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
>>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 00:07:02 +0900
>>> To: Korean Studies Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
>>> Subject: Re: [KS] South Korea's Rollback of Democratic Rights
>>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> This is a fascinating topic and I would like to thank Proffessor
>>> Katsiaficas
>>> for starting the discussion.
>>> 
>>> I believe that the police crackdowns last weekend were the latest
>>> chapter in
>>> Lee Myung-bak fulfilling his promise of zero tolerance for illegal
>>> demonstrations and to crackdown on protesters, demonstrations, and
>>> descent
>>> in general.  The recent arrests of the MBC producer and chairman of the
>>> YTN
>>> union, as well as the conviction of the organizers of the online boycott
>>> against business placing advertisements in the Chosun Ilbo, Joongang
>>> Ilbo,
>>> and Dong-A Ilbo attest to the current administration's disregard for
>>> certain
>>> democratic rights and freedoms.
>>> 
>>> In relation to Scott's comments on the violent actions of "*these same
>>> individuals* attacking "violent crackdowns" by the police" who exactly
>>> are
>>> we talking about?  The Human Rights Network of Korea?The Korea
>>> Progressive
>>> Alliance? The Korean
>>> Confederation of Trade Unions? The high school and college students?
>>> There
>>> was a myriad of groups and organizations involved in the activities over
>>> the
>>> weekend representing a wide array of issues.  I think it is inaccurate
>>> to
>>> lump the whole of Korean civil society into "theys" and "folks" who "lie
>>> and
>>> distort in the interest of promoting their own agenda."  Were there
>>> fringe
>>> groups of protesters who engaged in violent activity?  Possibly.
>>> However,
>>> also having been there, I can say that I witnessed only peaceful
>>> gatherings.  I would further say that most protests in Seoul are
>>> conducted
>>> peacefully and within the confines of the of the rule of law.  The point
>>> of
>>> many of these protests is to influence or gain access to the political
>>> process and those involved know that violent conduct is not a productive
>>> means.  Too often the focus is put on the actions of a small group of
>>> provocateurs, while ignoring the issues and concerns of the thousands of
>>> peaceful protesters involved.
>>> 
>>> I think most pressing concern with this issue is the threat to the
>>> fundamental freedoms of speech and assembly that these "crackdowns"
>>> entail.
>>> In terms of violence, I am sure there are those few who are guilty on
>>> both
>>> sides.
>>> 
>>> Michael Braverman-Scult
>>> M.A. Candidate in International Affairs
>>> Yonsei University Graduate School of International Studies
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:17 AM, Matthias MAASS <mm at mmaass.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Prof. Katsiaficas,
>>>> 
>>>> You make a good point, asking for proof from Mr. Burgeson., and I
>>>> second
>>>> that. However, in order to avoid double-standards, I's suggest you
>>>> might
>>>> also provide the list with more 'meat' than an arguably one-side
>>>> news-clipping. For what's it worth, I find it a bit one-side to align
>>>> yourself with one side (by posting the news item without further
>>>> comment)
>>>> and then shoot down the counter-argument by setting higher standards.
>>>> 
>>>> We might want to keep the discussion, I'd suggest, on the 'journalistic
>>>> level,' for all, or limit it to a discussion that requires scientific
>>>> methodology.
>>>> 
>>>> I, for one, can live with different opinions quite well, and would
>>>> welcome
>>>> an open discussion where people can present their reasonable viewpoints
>>>> without prior extended trips to the library.
>>>> 
>>>> Aloha,
>>>> Maass (Mr.)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: koreanstudies-bounces at koreaweb.ws
>>>> [mailto:koreanstudies-bounces at koreaweb.ws] On Behalf Of george
>>>> katsiaficas
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 2:57 PM
>>>> To: jsburgeson at yahoo.com, Korean Studies Discussion List; J.Scott
>>>> Burgeson
>>>> Subject: Re: [KS] South Korea's Rollback of Democratic Rights
>>>> 
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> 
>>>> Scott calls for "further research and investigation before drawing any
>>>> final
>>>> conclusions" about individuals holding a press conference being
>>>> arrested en
>>>> masse.
>>>> 
>>>> I am all for further research and in that spirit, I would like to know
>>>> the
>>>> factual basis for Scott's assertion that "these same individuals
>>>> attacking
>>>> "violent crackdowns" by the police and calling for a "guarantee (of)
>>>> the
>>>> freedom to assemble and demonstrate" had physically hijacked the stage
>>>> of
>>>> the Hi Seoul Festival at City Hall on the previous Saturday night."
>>>> 
>>>> Evidently Scott has some inside information that can name specific
>>>> individuals who held the press conference(s) and were arrested being
>>>> the
>>>> same individuals present a week before at a different location.
>>>> 
>>>> Scott, please provide us with the names and/or other research you've
>>>> done
>>>> to
>>>> draw your conclusion.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> george katsiaficas
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> From: "J.Scott Burgeson" <jsburgeson at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: <jsburgeson at yahoo.com>, Korean Studies Discussion List
>>>>> <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 21:25:53 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>> To: Korean Studies Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [KS] South Korea's Rollback of Democratic Rights
>>>>> 
>>>>> I suggest further research and investigation before drawing any final
>>>>> conclusions.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Eugene (Gene) Y. Park
> Associate Professor
> Department of History
> University of California, Irvine
> Irvine, CA 92697 USA
> http://www.faculty.uci.edu/profile.cfm?faculty_id=4926
> 




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