[KS] FW: Korea & ethnic purity

Werner Sasse werner_sasse at hotmail.com
Wed Oct 26 08:29:40 EDT 2011



 



From: werner_sasse at hotmail.com
To: kwlarsen67 at gmail.com
Subject: RE: [KS] Korea & ethnic purity
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:28:29 +0000





dear Kirk and others, just in short on ethnic purity (historically)
- Did the "Koreans" when they pushed the boarder north in "Unified" Silla-->Goryeo--> early Joseon conquer "Koreans"?
- How many Korean surnames have their ancestry in China (and their members know). By the way: were the Korean famous  Sea Lord Jang Pogo's parents not Chinese living in Wando?
- Has there been no immigration from Japanese islands and probably further south-west? (see early anthropological data) 
Best,
Werner Sasse
 



Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 09:48:20 -0600
From: kwlarsen67 at gmail.com
To: koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws
Subject: Re: [KS] Korea & ethnic purity

A few quick thoughts on this topic

1) Most of the Chinese in "Chinatowns" in Korea are of fairly recent origin (100 years or so) and do usually self-identify as "Chinese."

2) Most in the ROK had Republic of China (Taiwan) passports until the ROK normalized relations with the PRC in 1992. After this, the ROC was kicked out of the embassy in Myôngdong and there has been an increase in Chinese from the PRC (mostly from Shandong) in Korea.

3) In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, the sense of discrimination felt by the Chinese in Korea was widespread and palpable. I often heard Chinese lamenting that Korea was the only place on earth where the huaqiao magic didn't seem to work. In the early 90s I was given a pamphlet entitled "Uri-nûn Wei Chajangmyôn changsapakke halsuopnûnga?"  ("Why is it that we can only make chajangmyôn?) which lamented the various ways in which ROK state and society made life difficult for the Chinese in Korea. 

I haven't seen this but I wouldn't be surprised to someday receive a pamphlet from a North Korean defector titled " 

Uri-nun Wei Naengmyon changsapakke halsuopnunga?  Plus ca change...

Cheers,

Kirk Larsen 


On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 8:18 AM, don kirk <kirkdon at yahoo.com> wrote:





Actually, very very briefly, the ethnic Chinese whom I have met, on a few short blocks around Myongdong, that is, near and behind the central Seoul PO (where China is building a huge new embassy),and in a small neighborhood in Incheon and elsewhere, identify themselves as Chinese and are identified as such by Koreans. The story of the Chinese community in Korea is quite interesting and complicated. Of course, many did come for economic opportunity. One assumes some became "Koreanized" but by no means all. They say they suffered from "discrimination" historically, some now but not so much. Others will know a lot more about this topic. My conversations are random. If you want real answers, you need to come out here and interview people systematically.
Don Kirk

--- On Mon, 10/3/11, Hilary K Josephs <hkjoseph at law.syr.edu> wrote:


From: Hilary K Josephs <hkjoseph at law.syr.edu> 

Subject: Re: [KS] Korea & ethnic purity
To: "Korean Studies Discussion List" <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
Date: Monday, October 3, 2011, 3:07 PM 







Dear colleagues:
 
I am afraid that my comments were not very well phrased. And I was assuming that those who responded to this most recent query had also followed the earlier “discussion” which I started at the beginning of July. My mindset was shaped by study of Asian history in the 1960s and I have not kept up with all the research done since then, with the exception of reading about the Manchu/Chinese relations under the Qing. I used the terms “ethnocentric” and “ethnic purity” because I could not think of any other more appropriate terms. No offense to anyone was intended.
 
Naively I had presupposed that because of the Chinese tribute system, in which Korea participated, that there was easy passage across the Chinese-Korean border and that some Chinese gravitated to Korea and permanently settled there because of economic opportunities, chain migration by family members, intermarriage, etc. Those who responded to my July query disabused me of that notion: there were ethnic Chinese who lived in traditional Korea but not in any great numbers. It is still unclear to me whether over time those people became thoroughly Koreanized (through intermarriage, for example) and ceased to identify with their place of origin (became monolingual, did not make visits back to China, etc.) Becoming Koreanized would not have necessitated a rupture with the Confucian heritage because the Koreans were, if anything, more Confucian than the Chinese and used study of the Confucian classics as the basis for the Korean civil service examinations. So  a Korean could become expertly schooled in classical Chinese, regardless of whether he had any Chinese ancestry.
 
I once read a characterization of cultures that distinguished “clubs” from “missions.” The British were an example of a club; the French were an example of a mission. In the case of the latter, so the theory went, if you got a French-style education and could speak French fluently, you would be accepted. Having just finished reading Proust’s A la recherche du temps perdu, with its description of rampant anti-Semitism (directed even against people whose grandparents had converted to Catholicism), I think that characterization is a gross oversimplification, but as counter-proof I suppose one could point to Sarkozy, who is half-Jewish.  Applying the theory to Asian countries, maybe China is an example of a mission (even the Jews disappeared into the general population) and Japan is a club. How about Korea? Perhaps because of its geographic position, it had to accommodate more in-migration than Japan but it still clung to an identity which was separate from either China or Japan.
 
I was careless to bring in the subject of citizenship, which is a fairly modern concept. There is no necessary, but-for connection between attitudes towards dual nationality and ethnic diversity.  I might point out that India does not give full citizenship rights to overseas Indians. 
 
Regards,Hilary
 
 
 
 
 
From: koreanstudies-bounces at koreaweb.ws [mailto:koreanstudies-bounces at koreaweb.ws] On Behalf Of abbie.miyabi Yamamoto
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:47 PM
To: Korean Studies Discussion List
Subject: Re: [KS] Korea & ethnic purity
 


Dear Professor Josephs, 

Korea's law regarding dual citizenship has recently changed. Now under limited circumstances, dual (or multiple) citizenship is allowed. Japan officially still does not recognize dual citizenship for adults over 22 or those past two years of obtaining foreign nationality although the law is not strictly enforced.

Yours, 
Miyabi Yamamoto
2011/10/2 Hilary K Josephs <hkjoseph at law.syr.edu>



Dear colleagues:

 

Based on previous discussion of the presence of "foreigners" (including ethnic Chinese) in Korea, would it be safe to infer that Koreans are just as ethnocentric as the Japanese? May one also infer that most of the ethnic Korean population in Japan came to the country involuntarily? By involuntarily I mean forcible removal, not in search of better economic opportunities. As I recall, Korea, like Japan, is a country which does not recognize dual nationality for its citizens, in other words, if you obtain nationality elsewhere, your Korean nationality is automatically revoked.

 

Best regards,Hilary K. Josephs

 

 
 


-- 
Kirk W. Larsen 
Department of History
2151 JFSB
BYU
Provo, UT 84602-6707
(801) 422-3445

 		 	   		  
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