[KS] Samguk Yusa readership + Sagi translation

Andrew zatouichi at gmail.com
Mon Sep 17 01:46:22 EDT 2012

Just a very brief response.

Without checking the 1778 earlier version, my speculative conclusion
is that the two quotes from the Samguk-yusa were added in the 1792
revision (because they come in the introduction sections of the poem
divisions for Dan'gun and Later Baekje which were arranged at that
stage); but this doesn't mean he hadn't already read the Samguk-yusa
early on, or that he found it in Gyujanggak (or that he had time to
read it whilst working there, given he was meant to have become very
busy then, and also compiled Balhae-go etc).

Here is a link to a blog I've recently started; it has a biographical
summary of Yu's life, who according to Jeong (1998) referenced there,
died in 1807.  Jeong's research is based on primary sources, chiefly
the posthumous collection of Yu's works, Yeongjaejip (泠齋集).

Regarding the Samguk-sagi translation; I hadn't thought of Seoul
Selection but it is a good suggestion and they have reasonable
postage.  It's often books written in Korean I bemoan most not be able
to acquire without visiting the country.

I have to rush out now!

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 9:57 AM,  <koreanstudies-request at koreaweb.ws> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>    1. Re: Samguk Yusa readership during Joseon - response
>       (gkl1 at columbia.edu)
>    2. Re: Samguk Yusa readership - translated Samguk Sagi
>       readership (Andrew)
>    3. Song of Korea ??? ?? Year of production (Mary Nasr)
>    4. Re: Samguk Yusa readership - translated Samguk Sagi
>       readership (Brother Anthony)
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: gkl1 at columbia.edu
> To: koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 18:13:39 -0400
> Subject: Re: [KS] Samguk Yusa readership during Joseon - response
> Andrew,
> You say that the quotes that Yu DUkkkong took from the Samguk Yusa
> for his poetry cycle were likely added in his 1792 revision after he
> had access to the Gyujanggak library. But remember that Kim Sun Joo in
> her posting of September 11 was able to confirm that it was not until
> the Japanese colonial period (1910-45) that a copy of the Samguk yusa was
> added to the collection of the Kyujanggak. That would have been long
> after Yu's death.
> There is in reference works a date of 1749 for his birth, but no one
> seems to know when he died. Does your research give us any  clarification  concerning his death date? Your work shows us that he  was still living in 1792, when he was 44 years old (Korean age).
> I would bet that Yu would have had no difficulty finding a copy of the
> Samguyk yusa in the mid or late decades of the 18th century. The major
> sirhak scholars, most of them in Seoul or environs, were very active
> in those years, and Yu TUkkong's reputation as a scholar would have
> been well known to them. If he needed a copy of the Yusa, I believe he
> would have found one easily available somewhere among his colleagues
> in the sirhak scommunity.
> I strongly second Jonathan Best's recommendation to avoid dependence on the Grafton Mintz translation of the Samguk yusa. By all means find a copy of Yi PyOngdo's (李丙燾) careful commentary on the Chinese text and his Korean translation, both in a single volume.
> Gari Ledyard
>> Dear all,
>> Apologies for my slow response but thank-you for the very useful and
>> detailed replies concerning my query on the readership of the Samguk-yusa.
>>  I read them all with great interest.
>> I've decided the quotes Yu Deuk-gong took from the Samguk-yusa for his
>> poetry cycle were likely added in the 1792 revision after he had access to
>> Gyujanggak library.  There are existing editions of the earlier version
>> (one at Beijing University, one at Sunkyunkwan University and one at the
>> National Library), so in theory it would be possible to confirm.  The total
>> quoted prose passages of the cycle are taken from some 43 sources, 20 of
>> which are Korean.  The Yeoji-seungnam (輿地勝覽), Samguk-sagi and Munheon-bigo
>> (文獻備考) are cited most often: 46, 32 and 20 times respectively compared to
>> the Samguk-yusa only twice.
>> Despite this, I still suspect, if he had read it early on, the Samguk-yusa
>> may have influenced the conception and selection of topics, even if he then
>> turned to more reliable and detailed sources for their citation.  This is
>> what prompted my curiosity about the availability and readership of the
>> Samguk-yusa during the late 18th century.
>> Just out of interest then, below is a list of the topics which occur in
>> both the Samguk-yusa and Yu's 21 Capital Hoegosi cycle.  There is, still, a
>> greater proportion of topics not mentioned in the Samguk-yusa, and Yu was
>> extremely well read so ultimately it may not have influenced his choice of
>> topics at all.
>> This list excepts the early foundation myths and pre-dynastic orthodox
>> historiography (Dan'gun, Gi Ja, Wi Man) which is of course also attested in
>> the Samguk-yusa.  The first number refers to the chapter number of the Ha
>> Tae-Hung and Mintz translation; the poem number to Yu's cycle (which has 43
>> poems in total).
>> 26: poem 23: King Soji of Silla's shooting his queen and slave through a
>> geomungo case.
>> 33: poem 22: Jaemae-gok valley (財買谷), named after Kim Yushin's wife (or
>> daughter 宗女??) and the Songhwabang (松花房).
>> 34: poem 27: The Silla royal provision of three *mal* (斗) of rice and nine
>> pheasants (九雉), in the context of Myeongju (溟州).
>> 34: poem 17: King Uija of Baekje failing to heed his loyal vassal
>> Seongchung's (成忠) warning of imminent invasion.
>> 34: poem 17: King Uija believing that the Baekma-gang (白馬江) river dragon
>> would be adequate defense.
>> 34: poem 13: The Nakhwa-am (落花巖) rock from which Baekje palace ladies
>> committed suicide.
>> 37: poem 21: The magical and all powerful manman-papa (萬萬波波) flute.
>> 44: poem 27: Kim Juwon (周元) prevented from becoming the Silla king, and
>> enfeoffed as king of Myeongju instead.
>> 54: poem 26: Gyeon Hwon of Later Baekje attacking the Silla court at the
>> Poseok-jeong (鮑石亭) pavilion.
>> 55: poem 20: Biryu attempting to establish a kingdom at
>> Michuhol (彌鄒忽) whilst his brother Onjo is more successful.
>> 55: poem 17: Su Dingfang using a white to catch the river dragon in the
>> Baekma-gang (白馬江) before crossing into Baekje.
>> 55: poem 16: The Jaondae (自溫臺) rock which King Uija of Baekje enjoyed
>> sitting on.
>> 57: poem 33: Gyeon Hwon of Later Baekje receiving titles from the Later
>> Tang emperor.
>> 57: poem 33: Prophecy of a blue horse from Jeolyeong Island (絶影숧) given by
>> Gyeong Hwon to Wang Geon.
>> 57: poem 26: second mention of Gyeon Hwon attacking the Silla court at the
>> Poseok-jeong (鮑石亭) pavilion.
>> 57: poem 33: Gyeon Hwon later dying on an abscess bursting on his back.
>> 58: poem 28: Foundation egg myth of Geumgwan (金官) Gaya.
>> 58: poem 28: Empress Heo (許皇后) arriving from Ayodhya (阿踰陀國) in a red sailed
>> ship and offering her silk trousers at the mountain spirit shrine.
>> 64: poem 13: Goguryeo warlord Gaesomun (蓋蘇文) being made *mangniji* (莫離支).
>> 64: poem 14: Prince Ansun/Anseung (安勝/安舜) of Goguryeo defecting to Silla.
>> 68: poem 28: Pasatap (婆娑塔) pagoda brought on the ship of Empress Heo.
>> One final, separate question, regarding the authorship which has been
>> touched upon.  I have in places read, and formed the impression that the
>> Samguk-yusa was consciously written as an alternative to the Samguk-sagi
>> which was too orthodox Confucian and generally ignored Buddhism.  But
>> reading the English translation of the Samguk-yusa, I couldn't detect this,
>> and the Samguk-sagi is even referenced.  The first two more historical
>> sections, don't seem especially different to the historiography of the
>> Samguk-sagi (just less detailed) and considering this, they likely both
>> relied on similar earlier sources, such as the Gu-samguk-sa.  Is there
>> evidence then, that the author(s) of the Samguk-yusa were expressly
>> critical of Kim Bu-sik and the Samguk-sagi, or is this a later
>> misperception?
>> sincerely to all,
>> Andrew Logie
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andrew <zatouichi at gmail.com>
> To: koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 08:26:33 +0900
> Subject: Re: [KS] Samguk Yusa readership - translated Samguk Sagi readership
> I had seen about the recent Academy of Korean Studies translations for
> the Goguryeo and Silla Annals.  They are surely a very important
> contribution (I'm particularly interested to see how various rank and
> titles have been translated) and no easy task to have completed.
> I was planning to try and obtain at least one next time I visit Korea,
> but as it has come up, I thought I would ask if there is an effective
> and not overly expensive method to order editions from outside of
> Korea, directly through AKS perhaps?  Some of the larger online
> markets appear finally to offer international shipping, but do so only
> through the most expensive (albeit reliable) EMS postal service.
> (I'm away for a week so won't be able to reply, in case they are any responses.)
> sincerely
> Andrew Logie
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Edward Shultz <shultz at hawaii.edu>
>> To: Korean Studies Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 11:24:41 -1000
>> Subject: Re: [KS] Samguk Yusa readership during Joseon - response
>> Like most of you I have been following this discussion with great
>> interest and since the topic of the Samguk sagi has come up, let me
>> shamelessly promote three recent translations of the annals sections
>> of the Samguk sagi. Jonathan Best through Harvard published the
>> Paekche Annals in 2006. The Academy of Korean Studies has now
>> published the Koguryo Annals and the Silla Annals and the accounts
>> found in these three sections certainly provide nice background to the
>> Samguk yusa.
>> Ned Shultz
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mary Nasr <sheejun at gmail.com>
> To: Korean Studies Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:42:33 +1000
> Subject: [KS] Song of Korea 조선의 노래 Year of production
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mary Nasr <sheejun at gmail.com>
> Date: 2012/9/14
> Subject: Song of Korea 조선의 노래 Year of production
> To: Korean Studies Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
> Dear KS Listmembers,
> Does anybody know in what year the song "Song of Korea" (조선의 노래), puportedly written by Kim Il Sung, was written?
> I have suspicions it was in the late 1940s or 1950s sometime. Any leads would be much appreciated.
> Lyrics provided below and kind thanks in advance, Mary.
> 1.   아침의 해빛이 아름답고 곱다고
> 우리의 이름을 조선이라 불렀네
> 이처럼 귀하고 아름다운 내나라
> 이세상 그어데 찾아볼수 있을가
> 2.    3천리 강산에 은금보화 넘치고
> 반만년 력사를 자랑하는 내나라
> 간악한 왜놈들 이땅에서 내쫒고
> 해방의 종소리 높이높이 울리자
> 3.   왜놈도 지주도 모두 없는 새조선
> 자유의 강산에 우리 주권 세우자
> 슬기론 인민이 살아 가는 내나라
> 우리의 손으로 길이 길이 빛내자
> --
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brother Anthony <ansonjae at sogang.ac.kr>
> To: Korean Studies Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:56:50 +0900 (KST)
> Subject: Re: [KS] Samguk Yusa readership - translated Samguk Sagi readership
> The Academy of Korean Studies is typically but incomprehensibly shy about its publications. So far as I can see, there is no indication in their home page that they have ever published anything and no list of titles, let alone any way of ordering books. The obvious way to obtain the Koguryo Annals of the Samguk Sagi etc published by AKS (and indeed almost any other Korean Studies title published in English in Korea) is through Seoul Selection's online Bookstore,  http://www.seoulselection.com/  where the book is priced at 25$ or 28,000 won inside Korea. They have a separate North American operation. If their search engine does not produce the title (it is not well) you can find it by a Google search. The SS page includes a link to The Silla Annals of the Samguk Sagi .
> Brother Anthony
> Soganng University etc

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