[KS] Reply about Romanization; Answering my own questions...

[Stefan Ewing]

Hi, everyone:

Thanks to Roland Wilson for mentioning IPA.  I will look at adding an IPA 
column to the table.

Fortunately, I have been able to glean answers to all of the 3 specific 
questions I had.  Two I could have resolved for myself earlier with a bit 
more digging; the third question required more work to nail down.  Anyhow, 
they're all answered now, so this will hopefully be my last comment on this 
topic.

1. Regarding the question of "si" versus "shi" in McCune-Reischauer, I 
decided to do the sensible thing and search for "si" and "shi" in the KS 
list archives.  Lo and behold, my question has been answered, and "shi" is 
indeed not standard M-R usage.

2. I see no evidence that anything other than "yu" and "wi" are proper Yale 
transcriptions.  Therefore, I shall assume that the UN document was prepared 
by someone who incorrectly assumed that the transcriptions "ywu" and "wuy" 
are correct, analogous to the transcriptons of other vowels and digraphs.  
And I have now seen the changing of "wu" to "u" after "m," "p," etc. 
attested to in more than one source, so I will lay that to rest as well.

3. I found a program written by the South Korean Ministry of Culture and 
Tourism a few years ago to convert from Hangul to Revised Romanizaton, and 
received a reply from the NAKL.  The two sources gave some contradictory 
information, so I have had to go to the original source (the 2000 Kugo^u^i 
Romaja P'yogibo^p document) and extrapolate the representation of mixed 
consonant clusters on the basis of applicable rules contained therein.  
(Translations directly from the Korean, rather than quoting from the English 
version):

* 1.1 As a basic principle, Korean romanization is written following 
standard pronunciation (P'yojun Paru^mbo^p).
* 3.1 When a phonetic change occurs [in a consonant], the result of the 
change is written as in the following examples:
* 3.1.4 When k, t, p, or c [Yale notation] is joined with h, the aspirated 
sound [is represented].  (E.g., Yale cohko = NAKL joko; Yale cap.hye = NAKL 
japyeo; Yale nohta = NAKL nota; Yale nahci = NAKL nachi);
* However, in substantives, if h follows k, t, or p, the h is shown.  (E.g., 
Yale Mwuk.ho = NAKL Mukho; Yale cip.hyencen = NAKL jiphyeonjeon).
* Note: Intensification is not reflected.  (E.g., Apgujeong [not 
Apkkujeong], saetbyeol [not saeppyeol], etc.)

So on the basis of these rules and the results I gleaned from the conversion 
program, when mixed consonant clusters are in the final position, a 
following consonant's aspiration is shown for nh and lh (Yale notation), but 
intensification is not shown for the other clusters (Yale ks, nc, lk, etc.). 
  Note, however, that the conversion program *does* shown intensification 
for ks, ls, and ps when followed by a vowel (e.g., nokssi, dolssi, eopsseo).

Since explicit transcriptions of the mixed consonant clusters do not appear 
to be anywhere else on the Web (unless I haven't dug enough), I herewith 
present what *appear* to be the "proper" transcriptions.  (Caveat lector: 
use with advisement.  In the case of irregular pronunciations of Yale lk and 
lp (noted below), the conversion program did not give the expected 
exceptions for these cases, but I present them here anyhow.  Yale 
Romanization used for the left-hand column.)

KS: medial "kss"; final "k" (e.g., nokssi; nok).
NC: medial "nj"; final "n" (anja; anda)
NH: medial "n"; final "n" with aspiration of the following consonant (ana; 
anta)
LK: medial "lg"; final "k," except "l" before "g" (ilgeo; ikda; ilgo (Yale 
ilk.ko))
LM: medial "lm"; final "m" (salma; samda)
LP: medial "lb"; final "l," or "p" in some cases (balba; neolda; bapda; 
neopjukhada; neopdunggeulda)
LS: medial "lss"; final "l" (dolssi; dol)
LTH: medial "lt"; final "l" (halta; halda)
LPH: medial "lp"; final "p" (eulpeo; eupda)
LH: medial "r"; final "l" with aspiration of the following consonant (ora; 
olta)
PS: medial "pss"; final "p" (eopsseo; eopda)

And there you have it!  Now on to another topic....

Stefan Ewing

>From: "Roland Wilson" <roland_wilson at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: Korean Studies Discussion List <Koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
>To: Koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws
>Subject: [KS] Reply about Romanization for Stefan Ewing and everyone else
>Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 17:44:05 +0000
>
>Sefan,
>
>Hello.  I can see you have done a lot of work concerning the romanization 
>of Korean which in any form is very difficult to do as not all sounds can 
>be correctly represented.  That is one reason the linguistic community 
>started using the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) as it has the 
>sounds and diacritic markers to properly display almost any language.
>I did not see the comparison with South Korean's latest Romanization change 
>that is listed on their education/tourist website though I may have 
>overlooked it.
>As a linguists myself, to give students a better understanding of a 
>character, I would always write a hard to pronounce character in IPA.  The 
>IPA site as a sound portion where one can "click and learn" which could 
>help you improve your paper.
>I think in the end, we should do away with all non-standard forms and use 
>the South Korean government form even though I do not agree with some of 
>the changes.
>
>Regards,
>
>Roland Wilson
>
>
>

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