[KS] "Sugi" Flag Issue

William Brown wmbbrown at hotmail.com
Sun Oct 9 14:45:44 EDT 2005


"It should also be remembered that U.S. ships traveling up the Kanghwa 
Straits in 1871 would have been akin to a foreign warship traveling up the 
Potomac; I find it doubtful that the U.S. would not have defended itself 
against such an action.  The U.S. used the Korean military response as its 
pretext to attack (as did the Japanese in 1875/76).

I think the U.S. would have wanted Old Glory back if the circumstances were 
reversed."

No doubt we would like the flag back, and probably woulld give it to Seoul 
if asked, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, didn't foreign warships 
regularly sail up the Potomac to Alexandria in the 1700 and 1800s, without 
being fired upon?


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From:  <i>"Thomas duvernay" 
<bluelake at handong.edu></i><br>Reply-To:  <i>Korean Studies Discussion 
List <Koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws></i><br>To:  <i>"Korean Studies 
Discussion List" <Koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws></i><br>Subject:  
<i>Re: [KS] "Sugi" Flag Issue</i><br>Date:  <i>Sun, 9 Oct 2005 
12:48:44 +0900</i><br>
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<p class=MsoNormal style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font face="Times New 
Roman"><b>Peter Schroepfer</b> </font><a title="[KS] "Sugi" Flag 
Issue" href="mailto:Koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws?Subject=[KS] "Sugi" 
Flag Issue&In-Reply-To=002201c5ca19$19c792f0$fb6efccb at duvernay"><font 
face="Times New Roman">schroepfer at gmail.com </font></a><br><font 
face="Times New Roman"><i>Thu Oct 6 </i><i>14:26:44 EDT</i><i> 2005</i> 
</font></p>
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</font></div><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier New">><i> However, 
there has been an initiative by another American, Doug Sterner, 
who</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier 
New">><i> runs a website dedicated primarily to Medal of Honor 
recipients</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier 
New">><i> (<a 
href="http://www.homeofheroes.com/">http://www.homeofheroes.com/</a>).<span 
style="">  </span>He has been in contact with a 
U.S.</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier 
New">><i> congressman who is willing to sponsor a bill supporting the 
return of the</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier 
New">><i> flag to </i><i>Korea</i><i>.<span style="">  </span>The hurdle 
now is not so much in the </i><i>U.S.</i><i> Congress as it 
is</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier New">><i> 
with the Korean people.<span style="">  </span>As few people outside of 
military and academic</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font 
face="Courier New">><i> circles in </i><i>Korea</i><i> know much of 
anything regarding the 1871 conflict, 
there</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier 
New">><i> has been no general call for the flag's 
return.</i></font></font></pre><pre><font face="Courier New" size=2> 
</font></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font 
size=2>I can't imagine how the Korean people would ever be a hurdle 
to</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'">anything like returning something what was 
pillaged from </span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'">Korea</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'">'s</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>shores, or that rekindling an 
issue that would for many be loaded 
with</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>anti-American undertones (to 
say the least) would be anything close 
to</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'"><font size=2>difficult, although it would be nice to see the issue be 
an issue that</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>isn't written off by Korean 
conservatives as an mostly 
anti-American</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>one and therefore not 
something to be openly 
pursued.</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2> 
</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'"><font size=2>Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but is not a replica on 
display at the</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>Kanghwa YOksagwan? I was just 
there last Saturday and next to the</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font 
size=2><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'">description, which 
describes the original as being an a </span></b></em><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'">U.S.</span></b></em><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"> 
archive</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'">(don't remember which), is a picture of it 
in the custody of </span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'">U.S.</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'"> 
navy</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'">men. Unless there are _two_ flags that the 
</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'">U.S.</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'"> 
took from the area and</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>that it currently keeps in 
storage somewhere, then we're talking 
about</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'">the same flag. Kanghwa isn't exactly 
downtown </span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'">Seoul</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'"> 
or a university</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>campus so it isn't at the 
center of attention, but I have to 
believe</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>that if it really looked like 
it could be returned that people 
would</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>pay 
attention.</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2> 
</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'"><font size=2>I would like to bring up the subject with friends in 
the</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>(vernacular!!) Korean media 
and I imagine many others on the KS 
List</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'">might like to know: (1) at what stage 
would the </span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'">U.S.</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'"> 
congressman be</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>willing to have his name 
mentioned, since you haven't done so 
here,</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>and (2) what grounds are 
there to believe with confidence that 
the</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'">U.S.</span></b></em><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"> Congress wouldn't be a hurdle? Has the 
congressman informally</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>surveyed his colleagues? What 
happens if Congress votes 
_against_</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>returning it? I don't mean to 
doubt your thinking but I myself 
would</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>like to hear more about why 
Congress wouldn't be the biggest 
obstacle</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>before encouraging a 
"general call for its return." Finally, (3) 
would</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>you, Doug Sterner, or perhaps 
even the congressman be willing to 
be</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'"><font size=2>interviewed by the Korean 
media?</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2> 
</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'"><font size=2>When (I think) I saw a replica of the flag at Kanghwa 
YOksagwan I</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>thought of your website. It 
would be very nice to see the 
flag</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>returned and that's why I ask 
so many questions.</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2> 
</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'"><font size=2>Regards,</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span 
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2> 
</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier 
New'"><font size=2>Peter Schroepfer</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font 
size=2><font face="Courier New">Peter,<span 
style=""></span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier 
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier 
New">Thank you very much for your response.<span style="">  </span>The 
Korean people, themselves, are not a hurdle to the flag's return, but rather 
<span style="">it has to do with </span>their not knowing of its 
existence.<span style=""><span style="">  </span>It does not need to become 
a negative issue at all regarding Korean-American relations; in fact, it 
could be a small building block in that area, if handled 
well.</span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier New" 
size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier New"><span 
style="">You are correct that a replica of the flag is on display at the 
</span><span style="">Kanghwa</span><span style=""> </span><span 
style="">Historical</span><span style=""> </span><span 
style="">Center</span><span style="">; I have seen it on several 
occasions.<span style="">  </span>It was copied from the original that is, 
as I mentioned in my original post, rolled up on the bottom shelf of a 
display case at the </span><span style="">United States</span><span 
style=""> </span><span style="">Naval</span><span style=""> </span><span 
style="">Academy</span><span style=""> </span><span 
style="">Museum</span><span style="">, in </span><span 
style="">Annapolis</span><span style="">, </span><span 
style="">Maryland</span><span style=""> (see <a 
href="http://www.shinmiyangyo.org/flaghistory.html">http://www.shinmiyangyo.org/flaghistory.html</a>).<span 
style="">  </span></span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font 
face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font 
face="Courier New"><span style="">I will try to answer your questions.<span 
style="">  </span>First, I kept my comments brief and general on the first 
post, so that I could answer questions (such as these) on subsequent 
posts.<span style="">  </span>I think it is o.k. for me to mention the 
congressman’s name—John Salazar.<span style="">  </span>Also, I have 
discussed the matter in the past few years with a congressman from my state 
of </span><span style="">Michigan</span><span style="">—Bart Stupak.<span 
style="">  </span>Next, I never said the U.S. Congress wouldn’t be a 
hurdle; on the contrary, it is a big one.<span style="">  </span>The flag 
(and all war prizes) were added into the country’s inventory by an Act of 
Congress, and requires an equal one to have it returned to </span><span 
style="">Korea</span><span style="">.<span style="">  </span>The problem, 
from my understanding, is that the U.S. is worried that if they return one 
war prize, other countries will be asking for theirs back too (However, it 
is not without precedent, as I believe the way is being cleared for a church 
bell, captured at the turn of the twentieth century by U.S. forces, to be 
returned to the Philippines).<span style="">  </span>If a bill is written 
(and that’s a big IF), and it is voted down, then it would be back to the 
drawing board.<span style="">  </span>There needs to be an interest 
generated on both sides of the Pacific in order for Congress to gain an 
interest; they would need to know that both the American people support its 
return, and that the </span><span style="">Korea</span><span style=""> 
people want it returned.<span style="">  
</span></span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier 
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font size=2><font 
face="Courier New">I would be willing to be interviewed by the Korean 
media.<span style="">  </span>Presently, I am writing an article (English 
and Korean) that I will submit to Korean newspapers; if they would like to 
follow up on it that would be fine.<span style="">  
</span></font></font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier 
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier 
New"><span style="">I think the hurdles are not insurmountable.<span 
style="">  </span>As for the </span><span style="">U.S.</span><span 
style=""> worry that returning the flag might bring calls to return other 
objects, they wouldn’t even have to call it a <i>return</i>.<span 
style="">  </span>They could call it a <i>long-term loan</i>, or some other 
euphemism.<span style="">  </span>Although it was unintentional on the part 
of its captors, they unwittingly did </span><span style="">Korea</span><span 
style=""> a favor.<span style="">  </span>If the flag had not been captured, 
it most likely would have been destroyed over the years; as far as I know, 
it is the only original of its kind extant.<span style="">  </span>However, 
now is the time for it to return home.</span></font></font></pre><pre><span 
style=""><font face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font 
size=2><font face="Courier New"><span style="">I’ve heard other reasons 
from the </span><span style="">U.S.</span><span style=""> government why 
they do not want to return the flag.<span style="">  </span>They have said 
things like, “Many U.S. servicemen fought for that flag and some even 
died.”<span style="">  </span>My reply was that many Koreans fought to 
defend that flag and <i>hundreds</i> died (there were <i>three 
</i></span><span style="">U.S.</span><span style=""> battle deaths and more 
than <i>three hundred</i> Koreans killed).<span style="">  </span>The 
superintendent of the U.S. Naval Academy wrote me, “The flag is an 
inspiration to our Midshipmen.”<span style="">  </span>My response was 
that most Midshipmen probably have no idea of its existence, and few even 
know the battle in which it was taken.<span style="">  
</span></span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier 
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier 
New"><span style="">It should also be remembered that </span><span 
style="">U.S.</span><span style=""> ships traveling up the Kanghwa Straits 
in 1871 would have been akin to a foreign warship traveling up the 
</span><span style="">Potomac</span><span style="">; I find it doubtful that 
the </span><span style="">U.S.</span><span style=""> would not have defended 
itself against such an action.<span style="">  </span>The </span><span 
style="">U.S.</span></font><span style=""><font face="Courier New"> used the 
Korean military response as its pretext to attack (as did the Japanese in 
1875/76).  </font><pre><font face="Courier New"><span style="">I think the 
</span><span style="">U.S.</span><span style=""> would have wanted Old Glory 
back if the circumstances were 
reversed.</span></font></pre></span></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font 
face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font 
face="Courier New"><span style="">Although not government-oriented, there 
was a war prize returned to </span><span style="">Korea</span><span 
style="">.<span style="">  </span>A Korean horn bow, captured in the 1866 
French military action, was returned three years ago (I was the 
intermediary); it now is housed at the </span><span 
style="">Korean</span><span style=""> </span><span style="">Army</span><span 
style=""> </span><span style="">Museum</span><span style=""> at the 
</span><span style="">Korea</span><span style=""> </span><span 
style="">Military</span><span style=""> </span><span 
style="">Academy</span><span style="">.<span style="">  </span><span 
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">Also, I discussed with 
the curator of the medical museum at </span><span 
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New 
Roman'">Transylvania</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times 
New Roman'"> </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New 
Roman'">University</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New 
Roman'">, in </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New 
Roman'">Lexington</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New 
Roman'">, </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New 
Roman'">Kentucky</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New 
Roman'"> the return of a cannon captured in 1871; it is presently housed 
there.  </span></span><span style="">They are not unfavorable towards its 
return, but many details still have to be worked out.<span style="">  
</span>They also have in their inventory several other items that were 
captured, but the cannon is the only one that was 
located.</span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier 
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font size=2><font 
face="Courier New">Last week, I gave a special lecture here at my university 
on the 1871 conflict.<span style="">  </span>It went well, and the audience 
was very receptive.<span style="">  </span>I mentioned to them that the 
issue of the flag needs to be told to the Korean people; hopefully, the word 
will get out that way too.<span style="">  
</span></font></font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier 
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font size=2><font 
face="Courier New">I really appreciate your 
interest.</font></font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier 
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier 
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font size=2><font 
face="Courier New">Best wishes,</font></font></span></pre><pre><span 
style=""><font face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span 
style=""><font face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span 
style=""><font size=2><font face="Courier 
New">Thomas</font></font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font 
face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font 
face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font 
face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre>
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