[KS] "Sugi" Flag Issue
William Brown
wmbbrown at hotmail.com
Sun Oct 9 14:45:44 EDT 2005
"It should also be remembered that U.S. ships traveling up the Kanghwa
Straits in 1871 would have been akin to a foreign warship traveling up the
Potomac; I find it doubtful that the U.S. would not have defended itself
against such an action. The U.S. used the Korean military response as its
pretext to attack (as did the Japanese in 1875/76).
I think the U.S. would have wanted Old Glory back if the circumstances were
reversed."
No doubt we would like the flag back, and probably woulld give it to Seoul
if asked, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, didn't foreign warships
regularly sail up the Potomac to Alexandria in the 1700 and 1800s, without
being fired upon?
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From: <i>"Thomas duvernay"
<bluelake at handong.edu></i><br>Reply-To: <i>Korean Studies Discussion
List <Koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws></i><br>To: <i>"Korean Studies
Discussion List" <Koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws></i><br>Subject:
<i>Re: [KS] "Sugi" Flag Issue</i><br>Date: <i>Sun, 9 Oct 2005
12:48:44 +0900</i><br>
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<p class=MsoNormal style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font face="Times New
Roman"><b>Peter Schroepfer</b> </font><a title="[KS] "Sugi" Flag
Issue" href="mailto:Koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws?Subject=[KS] "Sugi"
Flag Issue&In-Reply-To=002201c5ca19$19c792f0$fb6efccb at duvernay"><font
face="Times New Roman">schroepfer at gmail.com </font></a><br><font
face="Times New Roman"><i>Thu Oct 6 </i><i>14:26:44 EDT</i><i> 2005</i>
</font></p>
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</font></div><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier New">><i> However,
there has been an initiative by another American, Doug Sterner,
who</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier
New">><i> runs a website dedicated primarily to Medal of Honor
recipients</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier
New">><i> (<a
href="http://www.homeofheroes.com/">http://www.homeofheroes.com/</a>).<span
style=""> </span>He has been in contact with a
U.S.</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier
New">><i> congressman who is willing to sponsor a bill supporting the
return of the</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier
New">><i> flag to </i><i>Korea</i><i>.<span style=""> </span>The hurdle
now is not so much in the </i><i>U.S.</i><i> Congress as it
is</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier New">><i>
with the Korean people.<span style=""> </span>As few people outside of
military and academic</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font
face="Courier New">><i> circles in </i><i>Korea</i><i> know much of
anything regarding the 1871 conflict,
there</i></font></font></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier
New">><i> has been no general call for the flag's
return.</i></font></font></pre><pre><font face="Courier New" size=2>
</font></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font
size=2>I can't imagine how the Korean people would ever be a hurdle
to</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'">anything like returning something what was
pillaged from </span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'">Korea</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'">'s</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>shores, or that rekindling an
issue that would for many be loaded
with</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>anti-American undertones (to
say the least) would be anything close
to</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'"><font size=2>difficult, although it would be nice to see the issue be
an issue that</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>isn't written off by Korean
conservatives as an mostly
anti-American</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>one and therefore not
something to be openly
pursued.</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>
</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'"><font size=2>Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but is not a replica on
display at the</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>Kanghwa YOksagwan? I was just
there last Saturday and next to the</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font
size=2><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'">description, which
describes the original as being an a </span></b></em><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'">U.S.</span></b></em><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'">
archive</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'">(don't remember which), is a picture of it
in the custody of </span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'">U.S.</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'">
navy</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'">men. Unless there are _two_ flags that the
</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'">U.S.</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'">
took from the area and</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>that it currently keeps in
storage somewhere, then we're talking
about</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'">the same flag. Kanghwa isn't exactly
downtown </span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'">Seoul</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'">
or a university</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>campus so it isn't at the
center of attention, but I have to
believe</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>that if it really looked like
it could be returned that people
would</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>pay
attention.</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>
</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'"><font size=2>I would like to bring up the subject with friends in
the</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>(vernacular!!) Korean media
and I imagine many others on the KS
List</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'">might like to know: (1) at what stage
would the </span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'">U.S.</span></b></em><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier New'">
congressman be</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>willing to have his name
mentioned, since you haven't done so
here,</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>and (2) what grounds are
there to believe with confidence that
the</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font size=2><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'">U.S.</span></b></em><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"> Congress wouldn't be a hurdle? Has the
congressman informally</span></b></em></font></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>surveyed his colleagues? What
happens if Congress votes
_against_</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>returning it? I don't mean to
doubt your thinking but I myself
would</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>like to hear more about why
Congress wouldn't be the biggest
obstacle</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>before encouraging a
"general call for its return." Finally, (3)
would</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>you, Doug Sterner, or perhaps
even the congressman be willing to
be</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'"><font size=2>interviewed by the Korean
media?</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>
</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'"><font size=2>When (I think) I saw a replica of the flag at Kanghwa
YOksagwan I</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>thought of your website. It
would be very nice to see the
flag</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>returned and that's why I ask
so many questions.</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>
</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'"><font size=2>Regards,</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span
style="font-family:'Courier New'"><font size=2>
</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><em><b><span style="font-family:'Courier
New'"><font size=2>Peter Schroepfer</font></span></b></em></pre><pre><font
size=2><font face="Courier New">Peter,<span
style=""></span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier
New">Thank you very much for your response.<span style=""> </span>The
Korean people, themselves, are not a hurdle to the flag's return, but rather
<span style="">it has to do with </span>their not knowing of its
existence.<span style=""><span style=""> </span>It does not need to become
a negative issue at all regarding Korean-American relations; in fact, it
could be a small building block in that area, if handled
well.</span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier New"
size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier New"><span
style="">You are correct that a replica of the flag is on display at the
</span><span style="">Kanghwa</span><span style=""> </span><span
style="">Historical</span><span style=""> </span><span
style="">Center</span><span style="">; I have seen it on several
occasions.<span style=""> </span>It was copied from the original that is,
as I mentioned in my original post, rolled up on the bottom shelf of a
display case at the </span><span style="">United States</span><span
style=""> </span><span style="">Naval</span><span style=""> </span><span
style="">Academy</span><span style=""> </span><span
style="">Museum</span><span style="">, in </span><span
style="">Annapolis</span><span style="">, </span><span
style="">Maryland</span><span style=""> (see <a
href="http://www.shinmiyangyo.org/flaghistory.html">http://www.shinmiyangyo.org/flaghistory.html</a>).<span
style=""> </span></span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font
face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font
face="Courier New"><span style="">I will try to answer your questions.<span
style=""> </span>First, I kept my comments brief and general on the first
post, so that I could answer questions (such as these) on subsequent
posts.<span style=""> </span>I think it is o.k. for me to mention the
congressmanâs nameâJohn Salazar.<span style=""> </span>Also, I have
discussed the matter in the past few years with a congressman from my state
of </span><span style="">Michigan</span><span style="">âBart Stupak.<span
style=""> </span>Next, I never said the U.S. Congress wouldnât be a
hurdle; on the contrary, it is a big one.<span style=""> </span>The flag
(and all war prizes) were added into the countryâs inventory by an Act of
Congress, and requires an equal one to have it returned to </span><span
style="">Korea</span><span style="">.<span style=""> </span>The problem,
from my understanding, is that the U.S. is worried that if they return one
war prize, other countries will be asking for theirs back too (However, it
is not without precedent, as I believe the way is being cleared for a church
bell, captured at the turn of the twentieth century by U.S. forces, to be
returned to the Philippines).<span style=""> </span>If a bill is written
(and thatâs a big IF), and it is voted down, then it would be back to the
drawing board.<span style=""> </span>There needs to be an interest
generated on both sides of the Pacific in order for Congress to gain an
interest; they would need to know that both the American people support its
return, and that the </span><span style="">Korea</span><span style="">
people want it returned.<span style="">
</span></span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font size=2><font
face="Courier New">I would be willing to be interviewed by the Korean
media.<span style=""> </span>Presently, I am writing an article (English
and Korean) that I will submit to Korean newspapers; if they would like to
follow up on it that would be fine.<span style="">
</span></font></font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier
New"><span style="">I think the hurdles are not insurmountable.<span
style=""> </span>As for the </span><span style="">U.S.</span><span
style=""> worry that returning the flag might bring calls to return other
objects, they wouldnât even have to call it a <i>return</i>.<span
style=""> </span>They could call it a <i>long-term loan</i>, or some other
euphemism.<span style=""> </span>Although it was unintentional on the part
of its captors, they unwittingly did </span><span style="">Korea</span><span
style=""> a favor.<span style=""> </span>If the flag had not been captured,
it most likely would have been destroyed over the years; as far as I know,
it is the only original of its kind extant.<span style=""> </span>However,
now is the time for it to return home.</span></font></font></pre><pre><span
style=""><font face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font
size=2><font face="Courier New"><span style="">Iâve heard other reasons
from the </span><span style="">U.S.</span><span style=""> government why
they do not want to return the flag.<span style=""> </span>They have said
things like, âMany U.S. servicemen fought for that flag and some even
died.â<span style=""> </span>My reply was that many Koreans fought to
defend that flag and <i>hundreds</i> died (there were <i>three
</i></span><span style="">U.S.</span><span style=""> battle deaths and more
than <i>three hundred</i> Koreans killed).<span style=""> </span>The
superintendent of the U.S. Naval Academy wrote me, âThe flag is an
inspiration to our Midshipmen.â<span style=""> </span>My response was
that most Midshipmen probably have no idea of its existence, and few even
know the battle in which it was taken.<span style="">
</span></span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font face="Courier
New"><span style="">It should also be remembered that </span><span
style="">U.S.</span><span style=""> ships traveling up the Kanghwa Straits
in 1871 would have been akin to a foreign warship traveling up the
</span><span style="">Potomac</span><span style="">; I find it doubtful that
the </span><span style="">U.S.</span><span style=""> would not have defended
itself against such an action.<span style=""> </span>The </span><span
style="">U.S.</span></font><span style=""><font face="Courier New"> used the
Korean military response as its pretext to attack (as did the Japanese in
1875/76). </font><pre><font face="Courier New"><span style="">I think the
</span><span style="">U.S.</span><span style=""> would have wanted Old Glory
back if the circumstances were
reversed.</span></font></pre></span></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font
face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><font size=2><font
face="Courier New"><span style="">Although not government-oriented, there
was a war prize returned to </span><span style="">Korea</span><span
style="">.<span style=""> </span>A Korean horn bow, captured in the 1866
French military action, was returned three years ago (I was the
intermediary); it now is housed at the </span><span
style="">Korean</span><span style=""> </span><span style="">Army</span><span
style=""> </span><span style="">Museum</span><span style=""> at the
</span><span style="">Korea</span><span style=""> </span><span
style="">Military</span><span style=""> </span><span
style="">Academy</span><span style="">.<span style=""> </span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">Also, I discussed with
the curator of the medical museum at </span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman'">Transylvania</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman'"> </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman'">University</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman'">, in </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman'">Lexington</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman'">, </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman'">Kentucky</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman'"> the return of a cannon captured in 1871; it is presently housed
there. </span></span><span style="">They are not unfavorable towards its
return, but many details still have to be worked out.<span style="">
</span>They also have in their inventory several other items that were
captured, but the cannon is the only one that was
located.</span></font></font></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font size=2><font
face="Courier New">Last week, I gave a special lecture here at my university
on the 1871 conflict.<span style=""> </span>It went well, and the audience
was very receptive.<span style=""> </span>I mentioned to them that the
issue of the flag needs to be told to the Korean people; hopefully, the word
will get out that way too.<span style="">
</span></font></font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font size=2><font
face="Courier New">I really appreciate your
interest.</font></font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font face="Courier
New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font size=2><font
face="Courier New">Best wishes,</font></font></span></pre><pre><span
style=""><font face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span
style=""><font face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span
style=""><font size=2><font face="Courier
New">Thomas</font></font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font
face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font
face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre><pre><span style=""><font
face="Courier New" size=2> </font></span></pre>
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