[KS] the General Sherman

[Matthew Smith]

Thanks to all who have chimed in so far.
 
The requested references that Southerton cites are:
Lytle, Merchant Steam Vessels of the U.S.: 1790-1868, p.198
Heyle, Early American Steamers
 
I have contacted the blogger whose post Brother Anthony shared (http://tinyurl.com/generalsherman) but I haven't receieve a response yet. I'd like to know his source, too. 
 As I had previously suspected, it seems the General Sherman was indeed burned in 1866 in Korea and never did return to American shores. In addition to several convincing sources listed, according to a translation of "Kojong Sil-rok": "The enemy ship was totally burned down and there remained only her iron ribs that looked like posts driven into the ground."
 However, my new question is this:
 
Which General Sherman can be found in Cape Fear's waters today and which General Sherman was destroyed completely in Korea?
 I chalk up the confusion to a handful of identically named but clearly different ships having their histories mistakenly weaved together; one ship being 774 tons while another weighing in at 187 tons. The larger ship was built in 1861 in Scotland and the smaller one in 1864 in Tennessee. So which one is our 1866 Korean incident one? 
 
Because according to this alleged photo of the USS Princess Royal (http://www.gregormacgregor.com/Tod&Macgregor/princess_royal.jpg ), it looks strikingly similar to the one that supposedly is sunk off the Carolina coast. Shouldn't this have been the same ship, later renamed the General Sherman, that was obliterated in 1866? Am I missing something?
source: http://www.gregormacgregor.com/Tod&Macgregor/princess_royal_115.htm 
 


*Matthew Smith*




Message: 2
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 12:05:09 +0900
From: Robert Neff <robertneff103 at gmail.com>
To: Brother Anthony <ansonjae at sogang.ac.kr>,     Korean Studies
    Discussion List <koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws>
Cc: Matthew Smith <matthewlynnsmith at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [KS] the General Sherman
Message-ID:
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I am familiar with the role it played as a "pirate" but I am still at a
loss as to how this ship was returned to the United States.  I would love
to see the citations used by the blogger and by Mr. Southerton.

I find it strange that none of the English newspapers in the region -
particularly the North China Herald - do not mention this return of the
ship.  And, I could find no mention of the ship on the shipping rosters for
the region.  Nor does it explain why there were several missions sent to
verify the destruction of the ship and its crew.  Foulk was sent in 1885 to
investigate its destruction.

The only reference I can find of he General Sherman in the papers in 1867
is:

"It is reported from Chefoo that two of the Europeans who were on board the
General Sherman when she was taken by the Coreans, are still alive.  The
information is not certain; but measures will, we believe be at once taken
to sift it.  If it be true, probably one of the survivors is the Rev. Mr.
Thomas who, it will be remembered, spoke the Corean language."
North China Herald, December 9, 1867.

Several years ago I remember reading something about the machinery and
perhaps one of the cannons of the General Sherman being brought to
Norangjin where an attempt was made to construct a "modern" Korean
warship.  Through a great many efforts (including using feathers because
the ship kept sinking - but I am a little skeptical as to the truth of
this) they did manage to get the ship to float but could not arm it and
sent it to Kangwha island just prior to the 1871 war with the United
States.  What became of it is unknown.

Robert Neff



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Brother Anthony <ansonjae at sogang.ac.kr>wrote:

> There is a recent (June 2011) lengthy blog posting about the full history
> of the General Sherman at
> http://maritimediver.blogspot.com/2011/06/general-sherman-uss-princess-royal.html
>
> The story is somewhat complicated by the existence of a much smaller ship
> also named "General Sherman" during the Civil War but the story told in the
> blog seems to be fully documented
>
> Brother Anthony
> Sogang University etc









1. The Last Battle of  the Tortoise Ship(거북선, 龜船) 
 "An ancient armored float was brought into play, the tortoise boat, a scow mounted with cannon and protected by a covering of sheet iron and bull hide. The front part of the armour lifted when the shot was fired and closed immediately afterward. Even the tortoise boat failed to injure the foreign ship." - The Tragedy of Korea, Frederick Arthur McKenzie, 1908

2. The trophies of the fight
 "The trophies of this fight are shown today in the sharp of the anchor chains of the ill fated vessel, which hang in one of the gateways of P'yung-yang." - 1905 Hulbert's History of Korea, 1962 Annotated by Clarence Norwwod Weems,1962

3. U.S. Acting Minister George C. Foulk refuses to SQUEEZE Korean Government
"By the last mail I am directed to SQUEEZE out of Korea an amount of money for the loss of life and property in the case of the schooner Sherman destroyed by Korean twenty years ago. My heart is not in such work and I don't believe Korea out to pay, or will she. The Sherman's people had no business to go to Korea, as Korea forbade foreigners from coming there, and again, all account agree in that the foreigners fired off guns, which made the Korean believe they came to do harm.The loss of life,etc. was due to ignorance as much on one side as the other, and with this much in favor of Koreans, that the schooner people were the first aggressors."  U.S. Legation, Seoul, October 13, 1985

"I have come to a peculiar point in my official life. Heretofore I have been wholly 
subordinated to the government, and its orders did not cross with my ideas of morality and justice. I have received an order to take up the affair of an American schooner Sherman, which was destroyed by Koreans twenty years ago, and her crew put to death, and to demand an INDEMNITY  from the Koreans. It seems to me that if it is proper to take this money from Korea now, it would be just as proper for lots of our citizens to make the State Department get indemnities out of Indians, whose forefathers killed relatives of American citizens in the past centuries. The government at home seems to forget that the Sherman had no business to come to Korea at all, as it has not made any preparation for the security of Americans who might go to Korea. It seems to me the Sherman people made an adventure with the consequences in their own hands.The question as to whether I shall severely tackle Korea on this subject or not is the most embarrassing one I ever had .
I am inclined to think the government is presuming on me because I have been successful in a number of minor cases. How is that it did not order General Foote to settle this matter, or did not settle it when the treaty was made in 1882? I am disposed to leave the case to be wrastled with by the pot-belled Democrat I expect to come hereto relieve me, and than stand off and see the dust fly."  U.S. Legation, Seoul, February 12, 1886(New Year's Day)

America's Man in Korea
The private letters of George C. Foulk, 1884-1887
Edited by Samuel Hawley
Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc. 2009



4. North Korea elected a monument and rewrote the history
This granite monument stands near to USS Pueblo(you can see ship's mast at bottom left of the picture) and rewrote history that
Kim Il-sung's  Grate-grandfather Kim Ung-u led the fight ans so inscribed on the monument.


"바로 이 투쟁대오의 앞장에 서신분이 위대한 김일성주 석의 증조할아버님이신 김응우선생님이시였다. 선생님의 호소에 호응하여 투쟁에 일떠선 평양성의 

인민들과 - - -."

Hope you will find the above interesting.
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