[KS] History, Fact, and Fantasy:Shrimp squashed by Fighting Whales?

[John Frankl]

Very interesting. This also appears in W. Skillend's translation of Yi Injik's "Hyol ui ru." I had always just assumed it a slip of the pen. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 15, 2011, at 2:06 AM, sung oak <sungoak at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> As far as I know, the following source is the first comment on the proverb of shrimps and whales.
> Homer B. Hulbert, "Korean Proverbs," Korean Repository (October 1897): 371.  
> But his expression is the reverse--A whale is crushed between two fighting shrimps.
> So it has a weak geopolitical connotation even at that time (just after the Sino-Japanese War). 
> It just says about "the irony of fate" of "an innocent man."  
>  
> Here is the original text:
> 45. ㅅ .ㅣ우싸홈에고ㄹ .ㅣ가죽다 (새우 싸움에 고래가 죽다) 
> "Two leviathans fight and even the whale is crushed between them." shows the irony of fate; one man crushed between two others who are quarrelling.
>  An innocent man is injured by a quarrel between two other men, tho he himself is not a party to it. 
> 
> Best,
> Sung-Deuk Oak
> UCLA
> 
> 
>  
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 18:50:29 +0900
> From: kc.kim2 at gmail.com
> To: koreanstudies at koreaweb.ws
> CC: mark_peterson at byu.edu; ubcdbaker at hotmail.com; ejbaker at fas.harvard.edu; kirdon at yahoo.com; eckert at fas.harvard.edu
> Subject: [KS] History, Fact, and Fantasy:Shrimp squashed by Fighting Whales?
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have some questions for the historians. Or maybe it is a question better directed to literature specialist or linguists.
> 
> Non-Korean source for 고래 싸움에 새우 등 터진다?
> What is the origin of the phrase "Shrimp is squashed in the Battle of Whales," or "고래 싸움에 새우 등 터진 격."  I have to confess that stylistically, this construction strikes me as relatively new, and possibly foreign in origin.  But I am probably wrong and wonder if anybody knows where this formulation is first attested.  Is it possible that this is a translation/adaptation of a foreign proverb, as is often the case with many English proverbs we think of as being native?  I guess I am here thinking of how "한자가 죽어야 나라가 산다,' which is often thought of as being purely Korean formulation when it fact it is actually a 飜案/adapted form of Lu Xun's "漢字不滅，中國必亡/한자불멸 중국필망"
> 
> "고래 싸움에 새우 등 터진다" proverb as Argument?
> This is often classed as a proverb; and as often is the case, viewed as a time tested general truth, it is often used as a statement or summary in discussions and arguments in Korea.  It has great appeal and power, and once the proverb is deployed, most discussants will stop arguing and find themselves nodding their heads in thoughtful agreement, overwhelmed by the proverbial wisdom and truth of the statement. End of discussion!  
> 
> 韓國의 宗敎 帝國主義/Korea's Religion, Imperialism?
> "Korea's religion imperialism" is actually the title of an article by a Korean historian.  I misread the title and found myself wondering about the power and the role of the term 帝國主義/impersialism in Korean intellectual history and its role in the modern/current discourse. Pretty much all public discourse is premised on this term or its corollary 植民主義/colonialism(this appears to have been a Japanese 4LW during the colonial times, occurring just once in 동아일보 before the end of WWII).  So we have 文化/言語/知識 帝國主義/植民主義 as being the dominant, or pretty much the only, framework for most discussions and reflections both politically and intellectually, thus the popularity of such books as "英語 내 마음의 植民主義," itself sophistic given that word count would rather suggest "日語 내 마음의 植民主義" or maybe more comprehensively "植民主義 내 마음의 植民主義".  Is this a phenomenon peculiar to the history of Korean intellectual discourse? 
> 
> What is the history of the companion term 事大主義?
> 事大主義 with 主義 suffix for "ism" suggests that this too is a very new term.  Any good pointers?
> 
> Joobai Lee
> 12/14/2011
> 
> PS
> 
> I do wonder if Korea is a "Shrimp squashed by Fighting Whales"?  For all the squashing it sure is going strong, 2000 years strong.
> 
> Looking at the 광주 thread, one gets the impression that the US may have been "played" 한비자 style, even if ultimately not wise.
> 
> Sovereignty: It seems reasonable you get what you deserve and nations also get what they deserve.  And Korea should surely be proud of their democracy and success. I believe they earned it by the sweat of their own labor and the blood of their own sacrifice.  I think it more secure and the future more bright because nobody handed it to them. They took it and they are the masters, and as it should be. And I don't think anyone can doubt that in Korea Koreans are King, no matter what the story.  They are responsible, as I see it, for all success and all failures.  They are the masters of their own success and their failures, despite the rhetoric of shrimp caught between the whales.
> 
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