[KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...

Fri Feb 7 02:20:42 EST 2014

Sorry for a small typo in my last post. A corrected  version is below.

Gianluca raises some important questions here. Two  thoughts:

1. Military. What exactly is the evidence for the  KPA's alleged role in 
PUST?
If they built it, that would be no surprise; they build many  things.
If generals send their sons there, no surprise either; indeed  the
Panorama programme said as much.

But if they in any sense run it, that is another question. Or  to be 
precise,
is it being claimed that the DPRK counterparts with  whom PUST must 
liaise are military, rather than Party or  the education ministry?
Does PUST itself have any statement on this?

2. Syllabus. I would put it a bit differently. On the  sciences side, I do
wonder what exactly PUST is adding, given that the DPRK's  own
universities are heavily science and technology-oriented  already. 

What surely is distinctive, as seen in the programme, is the  business
major. As I understand, this is North Korea's first MBA. And  as we saw,
you can't begin to teach in those areas without raising and  confronting
 matters well beyond the scope of  official DPRK discourse.

Finally, we know of old that under totalitarianism people live  a double
life, and are very skilled at it - including of course showing  no trace of 
it.
I would be amazed if any PUST student was unaware of who is  running
their school and why. But it was rather juvenile, and a bit  irresponsible,
for Panorama to keep prodding in the hope of getting somebody  to
go off-message on camera. Of course they wouldn't do  that.

I remain a net optimist regarding PUST.

Cheers
Aidan FC

Aidan  Foster-Carter 
Honorary Senior Research Fellow in  Sociology & Modern Korea,  Leeds 
University,  UK 
E: _afostercarter at aol.com_ (mailto:afostercarter at aol.com)      
_afostercarter at yahoo.com_ (mailto:afostercarter at yahoo.com)    W: _www.aidanfc.net_ 
(http://www.aidanfc.net/)      
Skype:  Aidan.Foster.Carter                          Twitter:  @fcaidan   
________________________

In a message dated 06/02/2014 22:35:08 GMT Standard Time,  
Afostercarter at aol.com writes:

So already a fruitful debate begins. I hope it  continues.

I was curious as to what in particular had depressed  Frank.
The BBC programme? Or PUST itself? Or both?
Others' responses so far vary on this point.

For my part, I'm not entirely depressed about  either.
It seems to me a net gain, and amazing, that PUST exists at  all.

As for the programme, it could have been worse  (Sweeney!)
- though also much better. Why on earth did no one  ask
why the students are all male?

And while I'm being a big softie, imho Caroline is a  bit
hard on the late great sad MJ: also a victim. But  she
has the DPRK's British fan-club on her side:
http://juche007-anglo-peopleskoreafriendship.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/old-and-
new-lies-bbc-panorma-educating.html

... the people  of the DPRK are better off without the degenerate  
whooping   and screeching sounds of Michael Jackson!

Cheers
Aidan FC

___________________

In a message dated 06/02/2014 22:35:36 GMT Standard Time,  
spezzagianluca at gmail.com writes:

yes  Nicholas,

actually no need to believe it. it's a fact the KPA is  involved in PUST. 
they built it from scratch, they run most of the facilities  if not all of 
them, they do the maintenance, they send some of their children  there (others 
go to a couple of special military institutions in PY, pretty  much as well 
equipped as PUST), and given that every single bit of educational  material 
is scrupulously checked before it reaches the classrom, we know this  is 
also done by part of the military. 

I agree with Caroline that some  of the questions in the doc were a bit 
dumb (seriously, michael jackson ...of  all people?) but then again that is BBC 
panorama. They do have the urgency to  proclaim they found some 'incredible 
story' behind everything, like the  students going to the 'juche building' 
to receive classes in politics,  ideology and history. that has been 
happening since 1948 in NK, in every  school, not much news there. Also such 
practice is one of the pillars on which  Dr. James Kim built his agreement with 
the NK government (just as he did in  China for YUST): zero interference with 
politics/absolute lip service to the  ruling government, and it could not be 
otherwise or the school would have  never seen the light.  

However, this works for non-sensitive  subjects, such as computer science, 
agriculture or chemistry, it is clear that  students remain behind on many 
important topics: economy, private finance,  individual rights, history, 
media, and this all makes their education less  valuable (some say useless) 
outside of North Korea. 

The real question  for me is how long can PUST continue to teach in such a 
sealed-off environment  and is it really worth it in terms of 'positive 
change for the future of North  Korea and its integration with the rest of the 
world'? 

We'll probably  see very skilled agronomists and statisticians in NK in the 
next years , who  still won't know how life really goes on outside of their 
country. What's the  point?

Last, one question i would have liked to ask (but I know it  can't be 
asked, even  off the record) is: do students at PUST know about  how the 
university came about, who funds it and who founded it and what is the  story behind 
the Christian foundation that owns and runs PUST and YUST)?  

I know the answer is 'no' (and this has been confirmed by all the  
PUST-related people i have interviewed), because it would be very hard to  explain 
the that their government allowed a religious foundation, with HQs in  US and 
SK to run one of the top schools in the  country.

Cheers

G. Spezza - NK News

On 06/02/14 15:35, levi nicolas wrote:

I'm probably feeling more depressed than Frank Hoffman.

I  also do believe that the KPA is involved in the management of the  PUST. 

____________________________________
 De : Caroline Norma _<cazzpeta at hotmail.com>_ (mailto:cazzpeta at hotmail.com) 
À : Korean Studies Discussion List  _<koreanstudies at koreanstudies.com>_ 
(mailto:koreanstudies at koreanstudies.com)   
Envoyé le : Jeudi 6  février 2014 14h24
Objet : Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of  Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 
Feb, 2030 ...

Yes, a truly awful documentary, but the scene where the student  points out 
the factory owner would have to give up ownership, and that was  the 
'problem' with the task assigned, was at least one bright moment. And  how 
appropriate that the presenter asked the class whether they knew who  Michael 
Jackson was--the biggest symbol of decadent, paedophilic,  drugged up western 
social decline anyone could think of. It was almost a  relief they had no idea. 

Many thanks for forwarding the link.
Caroline Norma

> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 10:21:55 -0800
> From: _hoffmann at koreanstudies.com_ (mailto:hoffmann at koreanstudies.com) 
> To: _koreanstudies at koreanstudies.com_ 
(mailto:koreanstudies at koreanstudies.com) 
> Subject: Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech  (PUST) on BBC1 TV, 
Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...
> 
> Dear Aidan -- sure, can amplify and magnify, quantify and  objectify, 
> but it shall just be another stultifying  experience. That is not needed.
> 
>  Frank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 09:47:50 -0500 (EST),  _Afostercarter at aol.com_ 
(mailto:Afostercarter at aol.com)  wrote:
> > Frank, this has to be your shortest post ever.
> > Care to amplify?
> > 
> > Best
> > Aidan
>  > 
> > __________________
> > 
> > In a message dated 05/02/2014 12:34:30 GMT Standard  Time, 
> > _hoffmann at koreanstudies.com_ (mailto:hoffmann at koreanstudies.com)   
writes:
> >> 
> >> How  depressing.
> >> 
> >>  Regards,
> >> Frank
> >> 
> >> 
> 

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