[KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...
Gianluca Spezza
spezzagianluca at gmail.com
Fri Feb 7 05:26:17 EST 2014
Hi Everybody, Ciao Aidan,
well I doubt we'll ever find official statements from PUST (let alone
Nafec) about dealing directly with the KPA, although some pictures of
its opening ceremony clearly showed that aside the usual representativs
from the Party and the MOE, the army was there. The official PUST/nafec
version is always this: The Lord empowered them to go on up to this
point, and that the DPRK (through the MOE) has been wise enough to
concede them full freedom & power to run the University.
Now, I still want to be optimistic about PUST (as well as all other
projects of knowledge share - my whole research is about this), but it
is undeniable even from the BBC footage that security knows when to
intervene and they can tell even Dr. Kim what he can and cannot talk
about. Given that the military is everywhere in NK I'd be rather
surprised if the KPA was not involved at all in PUST.
On the syllabus, I am sure you know, in the past 5-7 years or so, NK
students have had the chance to apply for overseas studies a number of
times (in Australia and Europe mainly), to try and enter standard
western programs, for Masters' and Bachelor degrees. None of those
chances did ever materialize however, not because they lacked funds or
anything, but because the students all scored very poorly on
pre-entrance tests, performed in NK, usually through a foreign embassy.
Some were the very same 'elite students' that go to PUST. The cream of
the crop. Mind you, as every lecturer will be able to confirm, their
English skills are really good, and so are their computer skills. And
every specialist who has worked on training North Koreans will tell you
that students are incredibly motivated and hard-working (much more than
in the South, just to make a comparison), but the severe restrictions on
both the educational contents and its applicability hinder their progress.
As of today, there is little or no context there in which they can apply
what they learn in class. The best option they have is to go and send
students for educational tours in emerging countries in South East Asia
as they have been doing for a while. If they were to visit big companies
or central banks in, say, Germany, they wouldn't know what to do with
it, because back home there is no frame of reference for that.
And about the students knowing who runs it, I can't name my sources but
I am pretty confident the students have no idea where the money for that
university came from, what Nafec is and so forth. Sure they know who Dr.
Kim is: 'the very kind gentleman who has been entrusted by their
government to run the Uni.'
The point for PUST, I've written about it in the past, is this: PUST
(and other schools as well, with the help of foreign partners) should
make a leap forward, starting to run bridge programs. NK needs to be
integrated into the global system. Its educational curricula and degrees
need to be integrated within one of the major systems in place today
(either the EU or UK or US, one of them). However that would require NK
to adapt programs to world standards and start teaching history,
sociology, working rights, human rights, and to open their universities
to full gender equality.... I am afraid the KPA would step in pretty
quick at that point.
So far, their 'MBA' is good in NK and maybe (and that's a big maybe) in
China. Anywhere else, it's just a piece of paper, because as of today no
western school is able to assess the validity of NK teaching, the
professor's training and methodology, the study credits, or make a
comparison with western programs and therefore recognize any degree
issued in N. Korea.
Sure their last educational reform is a step forward (it does bring the
educational system closer to the SK one) but they still have a lot to
do. I really would like to see PUST, as many other educational
activities in NK, succeed. It could save their lives in the future. But
they have a long way to go.
Cheers
G. Spezza-NK news
On 07/02/14 09:20, Afostercarter at aol.com wrote:
> /Sorry for a small typo in my last post. A corrected version is below./
> //
> Gianluca raises some important questions here. Two thoughts:
> 1. _Military_. What exactly is the evidence for the KPA's alleged role
> in PUST?
> If they built it, that would be no surprise; they build many things.
> If generals send their sons there, no surprise either; indeed the
> Panorama programme said as much.
> But if they in any sense run it, that is another question. Or to be
> precise,
> is it being claimed that the DPRK counterparts with whom PUST must
> liaise are military, rather than Party or the education ministry?
> Does PUST itself have any statement on this?
> 2. _Syllabus_. I would put it a bit differently. On the sciences side,
> I do
> wonder what exactly PUST is adding, given that the DPRK's own
> universities are heavily science and technology-oriented already.
> What surely is distinctive, as seen in the programme, is the business
> major. As I understand, this is North Korea's first MBA. And as we saw,
> you can't begin to teach in those areas without raising and confronting
> matters well beyond the scope of official DPRK discourse.
> Finally, we know of old that under totalitarianism people live a double
> life, and are very skilled at it - including of course showing no
> trace of it.
> I would be amazed if any PUST student was unaware of who is running
> their school and why. But it was rather juvenile, and a bit irresponsible,
> for Panorama to keep prodding in the hope of getting somebody to
> go off-message on camera. Of course they wouldn't do that.
> I remain a net optimist regarding PUST.
> Cheers
> Aidan FC
>
> *Aidan Foster-Carter*
>
> /Honorary Senior Research Fellow in Sociology & Modern Korea, Leeds
> University, UK/
>
> //
>
> /E/: afostercarter at aol.com
> <mailto:afostercarter at aol.com>afostercarter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:afostercarter at yahoo.com>/W/: www.aidanfc.net
> <http://www.aidanfc.net/>
>
> /Skype/:Aidan.Foster.Carter /Twitter:/@fcaidan
>
> ________________________
> In a message dated 06/02/2014 22:35:08 GMT Standard Time,
> Afostercarter at aol.com writes:
>
> So already a fruitful debate begins. I hope it continues.
> I was curious as to what in particular had depressed Frank.
> The BBC programme? Or PUST itself? Or both?
> Others' responses so far vary on this point.
> For my part, I'm not entirely depressed about either.
> It seems to me a net gain, and amazing, that PUST exists at all.
> As for the programme, it could have been worse (Sweeney!)
> - though also much better. /Why on earth did no one ask/
> /_why_ the students are all male?/
> //
> And while I'm being a big softie, imho Caroline is a bit
> hard on the late great sad MJ: also a victim. But she
> has the DPRK's British fan-club on her side:
> http://juche007-anglo-peopleskoreafriendship.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/old-and-new-lies-bbc-panorma-educating.html
>
> /... the people of the DPRK are better off without the degenerate /
>
> /whooping and screeching sounds of Michael Jackson!/
>
> Cheers
> Aidan FC
>
> ___________________
> In a message dated 06/02/2014 22:35:36 GMT Standard Time,
> spezzagianluca at gmail.com writes:
>
> yes Nicholas,
>
> actually no need to believe it. it's a fact the KPA is involved in
> PUST. they built it from scratch, they run most of the facilities
> if not all of them, they do the maintenance, they send some of
> their children there (others go to a couple of special military
> institutions in PY, pretty much as well equipped as PUST), and
> given that every single bit of educational material is
> scrupulously checked before it reaches the classrom, we know this
> is also done by part of the military.
>
> I agree with Caroline that some of the questions in the doc were a
> bit dumb (seriously, michael jackson ...of all people?) but then
> again that is BBC panorama. They do have the urgency to proclaim
> they found some 'incredible story' behind everything, like the
> students going to the 'juche building' to receive classes in
> politics, ideology and history. that has been happening since 1948
> in NK, in every school, not much news there. Also such practice is
> one of the pillars on which Dr. James Kim built his agreement with
> the NK government (just as he did in China for YUST): zero
> interference with politics/absolute lip service to the ruling
> government, and it could not be otherwise or the school would have
> never seen the light.
>
> However, this works for non-sensitive subjects, such as computer
> science, agriculture or chemistry, it is clear that students
> remain behind on many important topics: economy, private finance,
> individual rights, history, media, and this all makes their
> education less valuable (some say useless) outside of North Korea.
>
> The real question for me is how long can PUST continue to teach in
> such a sealed-off environment and is it really worth it in terms
> of 'positive change for the future of North Korea and its
> integration with the rest of the world'?
>
> We'll probably see very skilled agronomists and statisticians in
> NK in the next years , who still won't know how life really goes
> on outside of their country. What's the point?
>
> Last, one question i would have liked to ask (but I know it can't
> be asked, even off the record) is: do students at PUST know about
> how the university came about, who funds it and who founded it and
> what is the story behind the Christian foundation that owns and
> runs PUST and YUST)?
>
> I know the answer is 'no' (and this has been confirmed by all the
> PUST-related people i have interviewed), because it would be very
> hard to explain the that their government allowed a religious
> foundation, with HQs in US and SK to run one of the top schools in
> the country.
>
> Cheers
>
> G. Spezza - NK News
>
> On 06/02/14 15:35, levi nicolas wrote:
>> I'm probably feeling more depressed than Frank Hoffman.
>>
>> I also do believe that the KPA is involved in the management of
>> the PUST.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *De :* Caroline Norma <cazzpeta at hotmail.com>
>> *À :* Korean Studies Discussion List
>> <koreanstudies at koreanstudies.com>
>> *Envoyé le :* Jeudi 6 février 2014 14h24
>> *Objet :* Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on
>> BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...
>>
>> Yes, a truly awful documentary, but the scene where the student
>> points out the factory owner would have to give up ownership, and
>> that was the 'problem' with the task assigned, was at least one
>> bright moment. And how appropriate that the presenter asked the
>> class whether they knew who Michael Jackson was--the biggest
>> symbol of decadent, paedophilic, drugged up western social
>> decline anyone could think of. It was almost a relief they had no
>> idea.
>> Many thanks for forwarding the link.
>> Caroline Norma
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 10:21:55 -0800
>> > From: hoffmann at koreanstudies.com
>> > To: koreanstudies at koreanstudies.com
>> > Subject: Re: [KS] Pyongyang Univ of Science & Tech (PUST) on
>> BBC1 TV, Mon 3 Feb, 2030 ...
>> >
>> > Dear Aidan -- sure, can amplify and magnify, quantify and
>> objectify,
>> > but it shall just be another stultifying experience. That is
>> not needed.
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 09:47:50 -0500 (EST), Afostercarter at aol.com
>> wrote:
>> > > Frank, this has to be your shortest post ever.
>> > > Care to amplify?
>> > >
>> > > Best
>> > > Aidan
>> > >
>> > > __________________
>> > >
>> > > In a message dated 05/02/2014 12:34:30 GMT Standard Time,
>> > > hoffmann at koreanstudies.com writes:
>> > >>
>> > >> How depressing.
>> > >>
>> > >> Regards,
>> > >> Frank
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
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